Not meant to offend, just a question. Wasn't Christ born in the spring? I heard this somewhere a looonnnngggg time ago and have always wondered why you celebrate Christmas in December. Is that misinformation, or does it have something to do with using a different calendar? I am just curious. Thanks!

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I've always heard the same thing....and I think what *I* read, which may not be correct at all, was that the celebration of Christmas was set in December to align with the Roman/Pagan holiday. I've read this was done for two reasons: 1) So Christians could celebrate and not be persecuted and 2) that the church did this to bring Pagans into the fold...like with the Christmas tree.
To tell the truth, I don't know any of this as "fact", just passing on what I've read in the past.
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Jennifer
Nothing's Gonna Change My World -- John Lennon
]

Jesus Christ was reserructed (sp?) on Good Friday (which is the spring).

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Ahhh, he was REborn in the spring. That makes sense. Thanks!

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He was born in the spring, also resurrected in the spring. I've heard the same things Jenny stated as to why it is celebrated in December.

Adria
Mama to 4 precious angels!
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I've read things similar to what Jenny indicated. However, the more I study the roots of holidays, the more I question these kinds of facts. Honestly, I dot nkow if the reason I've come to believe are true or not (though they do make sense).

I had a Catholic friend in grad school say that Christ-mas is not his actual birth date, nor is it meant to be. THe fact that it is a mass is indicative of the fact that it's merely a celebration of his birth--not his actual birthday. I know for us that seems lind of strange, but it does make sense--we don't have an eact date for his birth, so we just celebrate his birth in general, not necessarily the day of his birth. HTH

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Jesus couldn't have been born in the middle of winter. Mary and Joseph (along with thousands of other people) had to walk to the city of their birth for the census. The census wouldn't have been called in the winter, everyone would have died on the trip home!

*~*Kelly*~ wife to JP
mommy to Bryce, Blake and baby ***GIRL*** due Dec 30th
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I guess to me it doesn't matter *when* it's celebrated, as much as it *is*. No offense taken :)

Renee
SAHM to Lydia Joy (9/17/01), wife to Aaron

I have read that yes, it was a pagan holiday in Rome and as with other pagan holidays(Easter), as Christianity spread, one of the ways they compromised was *christianizing*(is that a word?LOL!) the pagan holidays. Christmas was in December and is celebration of the roman god Saturn~the celebration of Saturnalia (sp?) Some guy waaay back when decided Dec 25 to be the day the birth of Christ was to be celebrated.

Now biblically speaking, (the NT) according to customs, the gospel accounts of the journey, the *star* and many other parts of the story taken into account, Jesus was most likely born sometime in September~I agree. Definitely not the spring.


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I always thought the date was used to cover up celebrations surrounding Mithras, the god of light. And that was also the origin of tree decoration. I'm going to check out your theory. Thanks for posting it....this stuff fascinates me. :o)

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You are probably right too :-) There are many traditions and customs from different countries, cultures and religions. Many customs cross over here and there..Santa Claus/St Nick, Christmas trees, Yule logs, Christmas caroling, stockings, 12 days of Christmas, lights and other festive decorations....all of that stuff has come from other cultures and religious celebrations. There are many different reasons for the dates, ie. the winter solstice(the 21st?), astrological influences, new year's celebrations, etc. There is all kinds of history and stories. Have fun checking it outhttp://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/wink.gif Do a search for Christmas or origins of Christmas and you'll find more than enough tidbits....

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I read that the Christmas tree came about in the 8th Century in Germany b/c Brother somebody-or-other was trying to get people to stop worshipping Oak Trees.
LOL
There are so many stories....and they are all probably true in some way, somewhere in the world....it's very hard to sort out fact from fact from fiction...LOL.

Jennifer
Nothing's Gonna Change My World -- John Lennon
]

I attended and graduated from a Christian University and was taught in a Bible History class that Christmas occurs when it does to align with Hanukkah. Most early Christians were Jews and they continued to do the Jewish stuff in addition to the Christian stuff. Maybe they also taught about Easter and Passover being around the same time for the same reason...but it's possible I imagined that one.

Melissa Mama to Alicia Liberty 4 and Jacob Ryan 4/4/01

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I'm actually much more inclined to believe the Passover/EAster connection that the CHristmas/Hanukkah one, since Hanukkah is *such* a minor holiday. It just doens't make sense. IT would make more sense to tie CHristmas with Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashannah if you're trying to make it "JEw-friendly"

Most of what I"ve been reading lately (since this thread was started) leads me to believe that Christmas is tied with Saturnalia, which is/was a major holiday. It just makes the most sense out of everything I've heard so far.

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I was just thinking about this, this Christmas cause I've always heard that Jesus wasn't really born at this time just that his birth was celebrated. Anyhow I was listening to a scripture read (have to look it up) that said the angel appeared to Mary in the 6th month of that year. If the calander is the same as we use today that would put her at concieving June/July give 9 months and you get March/april. I've always thought that the savior was born in April and than reborn in April. I've also heard that we celebrate his birth in December cause Christians were being persecuted and this was one way they could celebrate his birth without others knowing.
Diane

But the calendar isn't the same. The JEwish clanedar is quite different from the calendar we use.

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Firstly, I am a fundamentalist christian. I keep all the Holy Days listed in the Old Testement (lots of them are Jewish of course) and nothing that the Bible tells us not to. So we do not observe Xmas or Easter or anything else the Bible does not command us to keep.

We believe Christ was born in the fall. This is pretty easy to prove. http://www.ucg.org/search/search.cgi?query=christmas tons of articles about christmas here...why we don't celebrate them and how the holiday orginiated.

As far as the tree, yes there was a tree god, a pagan idol...people gave it gifts...and when it didn't take them the people took them back and exchanged them. Also the evergreen tree was thought of a life giving because it stayed green through the winter. so it came to replaced the pagan idol. There are a LOT of fertility-related aspects to most of the modern xmas symbols. This can occupy a whole day easily just learning about all of them!

We do not believe Christ wanted us to observe His birth. He gives VERY specific instructions on commemorating his death..which we do of course (Passover). In fact the only birthdays even mentioned in the Bible, both birthday people were killed.

well enough said for now.

PLEASE realize that just because my beliefs are different than YOURS does NOT mean that I do not like/love YOU!! I DO!!!! I know I'm the different one. I love everyone!!

I really admire most religions...more than that though, I admire anyone with *any* heartfelt convictions...it seems that they are few and far between in today's society.

Rebecca

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I'm a little confused. Would you mind exlaining what Passover has to do with Jesus?

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We believe in observing the New Testament Passover on the night of the 14th of Abib, the anniversary of the death of our Savior (Leviticus 23:5; Luke 22:13-14).

That Jesus instituted the new Passover symbols of the bread and the wine, and said of the wine "This is My blood of the new covenant" (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24), clearly shows that the Passover ceremony we are to observe is a New Covenant (New Testament) observance. Also, Jesus personally identifies this memorial ceremony (Luke 22:19) as "this Passover" (verse 15) and observed it on the date set aside in Leviticus 23 for annual observance on the 14th of Abib according to the Hebrew calendar.

Jesus Himself set the time of the New Testament Passover service on the night before His death. Paul confirmed that we are to keep it "on the same night in which He was betrayed" (1 Corinthians 11:23-26; Luke 22:14-20; John 13:1-17)-at the beginning of the 14th of Abib. Jesus specifically applied the name "Passover" to this special memorial service (Matthew 26:18; Luke 22:8, 15). He gave His disciples instruction concerning how, when and where they should prepare for this new way of portraying the death of the Messiah (Luke 22:7-13).

The New Testament Passover is not just about the death of the "Lamb of God." It is also about His suffering (Luke 22:15). We are to remember the entire sacrifice that He made-both His suffering and His death. His suffering, death and burial all occurred on the 14th of Abib. The symbols of the bread and the wine replaced the sacrificial lambs from the Old Testament (Exodus 12), which were a type of Jesus Christ.

Jesus, as the Lamb of God, is "our Passover" (1 Corinthians 5:7). The bread and wine represent His total sacrifice-His suffering and His death. Jesus' death occurred on the afternoon of the 14th of Abib, but His suffering began the night before His death while He was still with His disciples. "And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. Then He said to them, 'My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death'" (Matthew 26:37-38).

Our practice for remembering Christ's death as our Passover at the beginning of the 14th, the night Jesus was betrayed, and keeping the Festival of Unleavened Bread from the beginning of the 15th to the end of the 21st satisfies the directions given in Scripture. The biblical record is plain in this regard, and we have no difficulty discerning the correct sequence of events-Passover is followed by Unleavened Bread.

As Christ is our Passover, the bread and wine are reminders of His suffering and death. As Jews, Jesus Christ and the disciples had observed the Passover throughout their lives. But now there are new symbols. Christ showed His disciples the deep meaning of the Passover through the new symbols and through His ultimate suffering and death on the 14th day of the first month.

After telling His disciples to drink the wine, Jesus said, "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:28). Christ's instituting the Passover symbols is consistent with His role as "the Mediator of the new covenant" (Hebrews 12:24).

In His sacrifice, He took on Himself the penalty for all mankind's sins (1 Peter 3:18). When we partake of the bread and wine, we recognize that His body and blood were given to cover our sins. Through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ we are reconciled to the Father. Reconciliation grants us access to the Father, making it possible for us to come boldly before His throne of grace to find help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16). It is because of His sacrifice that we can be healed spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally (Isaiah 53:4-5, James 5:14).

When we eat the bread, we symbolize Christ living in us (John 6:53-54). We also show our unity with Christ and with each member of the body of Christ-the Church (1 Corinthians 10:16), as well as our willingness to live by the word of God.

Jesus commands us to observe the Passover service in remembrance of Him (Luke 22:19-20). Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 11:20-26 that the Church is to "come together" to "eat this bread and drink this cup." The purpose of this ceremony is to "proclaim the Lord's death till He comes"-representing the only way mankind can be reconciled to God the Father. Paul also tells us that we are only reconciled to God the Father by Jesus' death-that we are saved by His life (Romans 5:10).

The foot-washing part of the Passover service was established by Jesus. After first giving us a personal example of being a servant by washing His disciples' feet, He then told us: "If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them" (John 13:17).

All three elements-the footwashing, the bread and the wine-are a part of the annual ceremony observed by the United Church of God, an International Association. This ceremony is observed only once a year, shortly after sunset on the evening at the beginning of the 14th day of the first month of the Hebrew calendar, as established by the Word of God.



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::totally baffled:: I've never heard that explanation before.

I would be interested in hearing what our JEwish mothers have to say about this.

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No basis for winter date of birth.
The popular date of December 25 as the day of Jesus' birth therefore has no basis in Scripture. As many reference works show, it stems from a pagan holiday. Regarding the origin for the celebration of the day December 25, the Jesuit scholar Urbanus Holzmeister wrote:

"Today it is commonly admitted that the occasion for the celebration of the day December 25 was the festival that the pagans were celebrating on this day. Petavius [French Jesuit scholar, 1583-1652] already has rightly observed that on December 25 was celebrated 'the birthday of the unconquered sun.'

"Witnesses for this festival are: (a) The Calendar of Furius Dionysius Filocalus, composed in the year 354 [C.E.], in which it is noted: 'December 25, the B(irthday) of the unconquered (Sun).' (b) The calendar of astrologer Antiochus (composed about 200 [C.E.]): 'Month of December . . . 25 . . . The birthday of the Sun; daylight increases.' (c) Caesar Julian [Julian the Apostate, emperor 361-363 C.E.] recommended the games that were celebrated at the end of the year in honor of the sun, which was called 'the unconquered sun.'"-Chronologia vitae Christi (Chronology of the Life of Christ), Pontificium Institutum Biblicum, Rome, 1933, p. 46.

Perhaps the most obvious evidence of the incorrectness of the December 25 date is the Scriptural fact that shepherds were in the fields tending their flocks on the night of Jesus' birth. (Lu 2:8, 12) Already by the autumn month of Bul (October-November) the rainy season was starting (De 11:14), and flocks were brought into protected shelters at night. The next month, Chislev (the ninth month of the Jewish calendar, November-December), was a month of cold and rain (Jer 36:22; Ezr 10:9, 13), and Tebeth (December-January) saw the lowest temperatures of the year, with occasional snows in the highlands area. The presence of shepherds in the fields at night therefore harmonizes with the evidence pointing to the early autumn month of Ethanim as the time of Jesus' birth.-

Also weighing against a December date is that it would be most unlikely for the Roman emperor to choose such a wintry, rainy month as the time for his Jewish subjects (often rebellious) to travel "each one to his own city" to be registered.-Lu 2:1-3; compare Mt 24:20;