edited Friday night: Today Rachel was calmly in bed at 8 PM without any call backs, returns, etc. She had a nap today & 1 small peice of candy from her Advent calendar only.

Put baby in bed at 6:45 & Rachel had a snack on my lap at 7:10.
Read books in her bed at 7:30 & we laid in her bed & talked until 8.

Just wanted to thank ya all & let ya know that I'm listening & trying.

OP:

My 3.5 yr old and I had such a bad day yesterday that I'm shocked I didn't end up on the 11'oclock news as one of those moms who totally beat their kid. She's is 100% great for everyone but me. She just gave up naps so she's tired & barely eats.

5:30 AM in my bed b/c she's hungry (chose not to eat dinner night before) - told her that was too bad so she slept w me until 6:30

I made her cheese & grapes - she ate a few bites; sausage - she ate none - pancakes - took over 1 hour of me constantly reminding her to eat & turning off the TV (she had asked for both the sausage & pancakes)

dressing for day - I picked out clothes b/c she didn't want to - didn't want to wear those - she picked out PJs that look close enought to clothes - ok she wore those

10-15 reminders to get ready to go - probably 5 reminders not to squeeze the baby - of course some of these are me yelling at this point

go to dentist - she's great - does well

way home - she cries that she wants to go to McD's & not go home

get home - she's still crying - sitting on couch - tell her if she's not calmed down by the time I carry in baby & stuff then she'll go to her room

carry her to room

lunch - a battle - 2 moz. sticks - that's it

at naptime, she goes into baby's room & gets her all stirred up

4:30 - go to bank - she falls asleep in car
go to meet Mothers & More friends at Macaronni Grill - we're early but baby wakes up crying so can't sit in car


**here's the worst part**
Rachel throws complete fit that she has to walk 30 feet to door - lays on the curb crying & screaming - it's 20 deg. outside & dark - I'm carrying the baby & have to literally drag Rachel to the door by her coat - people are walking around us & staring (they did open the door for me :))- I'm not yelling but am about to cry myself - I really just want to eat with my friends don't want the 3 yr old dictator to control where we eat

sit in cold entry way for 15 mintues until friends come - she's calm but still wants to go home - transistion into table is another complete meltdown - friend takes baby - Rachel sits on my lap for 10 minutes - won't order any food; when older kids come does eventually do fine with them although she takes off her braces & shoes & goes into bathroom in her socks (yuck)

I ordered her moz. sticks but she eats nothing but warm bread (& a lot of that). Cries when other kids get ice cream after their meal but accepts that she didn't get ice cream b/c she didn't order a meal

home at 8 PM - let her watch DVD & eat ice cream - warn her that it will only be a few minutes - we agree to 8:30 but then no songs at bed

8:30 baby in bed - Rachel out of bed at least 5 times (after getting 1 book) -wakes up baby- I call me mom who talks me down to tells me to just let it go, let her sit on couch until baby is asleep & I can sit with Rachel on my lap & give her attention

9:00 agree that she can have apples in bed (I know this is a stall as I have to cut the apples) - she knocks over the cat food & water (again) trying to help - tell her a story - eats 2 apples & says she doesn't like them - wants mangos

convince her to stay in bed while I get mangos - come back & she's almost asleep - doens't eat mangos which I leave near her bed

9:30 done & amazed that we both lived through another day

esp. when she's too rough with the baby (who laughs) my first instinct is to slap her - other day she threw a toy at me from about 1 foot away & I slapped her in the head before I could stop myself - we were both shocked & cried

What I can do to end the constant nagging & food issues?

I know we're both too tired & hungry to function well together. Every night I say, we're not going to watch TV until you're dressed & fed, but then the morning is so rushed (& she's such a slow morning person) that I end up letting her eat in front of TV - she had Gorilla Munch today & wore what I picked out with little protest (although no underwear)

I try to let the little things go (no underwear, etc) but I'm dead by 6 pm & not an evening person - she's not a morning person & I'm out of ideas

I have a babysitter 1 day a week so I can work & run a few errands. Mom or inlaws help on weekends but it's the constant battles of every meal & bedtime that are killing me.

Sorry you are having a tough time. It's like that sometimes.

One thing that might help is to stop worrying about food and try not to count what she eats. The other thing is to remember that 3 is still a baby. 3 yr olds like/need to be carried and 3 yr olds need help dressing and getting ready. Having a baby doesn't make a toddler less needy, yk? It makes it harder to take care of the baby, but think of it as having twins right now. I pretended there wasn't 15 months difference in my middle two for years. It made things a lot less stressful. There are some expectations that are just wrong, sweetie. I know it's hard. Maybe you can keep some tidy snacks in your bedroom for 5:30 am hungries. It's common for children to wake early- and hungry. They are like little farm animals, or doggies who need to be let out of their crates. :-)

This mothering stuff is hard, no doubt, but we have to make things easier on the people we love and on ourselves. :big hug:

Oh mama, :heart:

I know how hard it is with a child like that. Believe me, I have one that you just described to a T.

The slapping part scares me, only because I've been there before - an uncontrolled reaction that made us both cry and I had to ask her to forgive me. That was such a scary thing and quite thelearning experience. A little break time from daddy or family members (I see your dh is deployed) can go a long way.


The only advice I could offer is consistency with the food issue. I know that at 9 PM it's so very hard to do, but she is controlling you by making you get all these different thing for her to eat. and she knows that if she doesn't eat earlier in the day - it's no big deal because mommy will get something for her later. And you told her no ice cream at the restaurant, but she got it at home. Sometimes it's so much easier to just give them what they want so they will quit whining/throwing fits/screaming/hitting/whatever, but what are we teaching them then?

My first week of sticking to my guns over issues like this was absolutely horrible - but it does get better. My dd finally realizes that if mommy says it she means it. She may try to argue back, but she will not win.

Good luck mama and HUGS to you!

Oh honey *hugs*

I was having some issues with Lindsey - we cut out dairy, and although she's still challenging at times, it made a huge difference. She no longer "needs" to be carried all the time, she's calmer, etc..

just curious because it seems like she's eating a lot of cheese and nothing else really.

wow, I'm really sorry you had a bad day :( Is this a typical day for you guys, or recnt becuase she's transitioning to the no nap thing?

Please don't think I'm being critical, but I have to say that in my house, if my boys acted like that with food and stuff, they'd probably go hungry, LOL! I'm not a short order cook. I ask them what they want to eat, they tell me, I make it, and then if they don't eat it that's their problem, I won't cook again until the next meal. (this is obviously to my 3.5 and 5.5 guys, the babe nurses whenever he wants, LOL!) They both know where the *snack* drawer is (trader joe's fruit bars, crackers, etc) and they are free to help themselves, but I refuse to deal with the picky eating. There is no WAY I'd be making 3, 4 or 5 meals at each sitting like you've done for her. IMO, that's teaching her that she can manipulate you (again, we're talking about a 3.5 YO here, I'd never say that a babe or even toddler was capable of manipulation.) At that stage, they are trying so hard to figure out what they can control, and I think she's gotten it in her head that she can control you, so it's almost like a game to see what she can get mommy to do next, yk? Consistency is key at this age especially, becuase she's fianlly got a small grasp of rules and if the rules change constantly she won't know how to act.

Again, I'm certainly not the best mama and if you had been in my house this morning you'd have shuddered at me squalking at my guys to get their teeth brushed (they like to chew on the toothbrushes instead of brush, LOL) But, I've gotten a system down with them that they get 3 chances to do what I'm asking, and if they don't, then they either get it done for them by me (like brushing their teeth, I told ethan my 3.5 to brush, he dawdled, I told him again and said, "that's 2" he dawdled, I told him a third time that it was time to brush his teeth, then I took the toothbrush and did it for him (which he hates) 90% of the time, they never get to the third reminder, becuase they know what's expected of them. But if all I ever did was just remind them and remind without proactively doing something to help them along, then they'd ignore me no matter how many times I said it, I'm sure. It's like redirection with little ones. You can't just say from across the room, "Don't play with that plug!" you've got to get up and move them away from it ;)

Now, with my guys their special treat every day is to play littl ebear on the computer, so if we have repeated instances where they don't do what they are told, then they lose the game for the day and don't get to play. For them, this method of discipline seems to work, it's not *punitive* in that they aren't made to feel bad or ashamed. It's just that they know that there are things that are expected of them, and if they don't do those things, they don't get to do special activites like the game.

I'm probably sounding like a totally strict, meanine mama, but iI've been known to leave places when my kids throw tantrums like that (and it's a very, very rare occurence becuase I will leave, I think, and they know it) It's kind of our across the board rule, if you can't behave properly/play nicely/act appropriately, then you'll lose the priviledge to be there and be removed from the situation.

((((hugs))))) it's tough. I hope you can come up with some sort of solution so you aren't batling her all the time and you two can actually enjoy each other :)

3 yr olds don't control with food. Their thought process is not that of an adult's, not that refined. Little children are not out to manipulate you and control you. I know people think that, but that just sets a parent up to be their child's adversary rather than their protector.

3 yr olds are hungry when they are hungry and not hungry when they are not hungry. You can try to give them routine-- that helps-- but no food tantrums on the part of adults. Do not make it a bigger issue than it deserves. This child may also not be in a growth spurt and may well need far less food than we think. Also, their tummies are tiny- the need many small meals a day, not just 3 big ones. I have a 15 yr old you can't keep in food- but when he was a toddler and 'preschooler' he ate like a bird. It's no big deal, food.

I beg people not to think of these tiny, needy new-to-the-world humans as out to manipulate and control adults.

Parenting is not easy, but thinking like this is only going to result in a lot of anger all around.

Frankly, and maybe I have been a mother too long, lol, but I saw *nothing* bad about how this 3 yr old was eating. So he wanted pancakes and saugages. He ate some panacke and felt too full for sausages. He woke up hungry. This is manipulaitve? This is a little child.

I don't want any mama to feel bad about having a bad day, it happens. We get over it. We try harder the next day. But the ordering a meal part at the restaurant. Why did the child have to order a meal? How much of a meal can a 3 yr old eat? Warm bread sounds good to me. It ended up in punishment. No ice cream, but then icecream at home. What's the message? If nobody had commented on food at the restauant, then she could have had warm bread and ice cream. Maybe a bite of protein from mama's meal. It would have been plenty of food and everyone would have been happy.

Don't set ourselves up to fight with our kids, mamas. If we are gentle with our children, we are gentle with oursleves. If we are harsh with our kids, we feel like crap, too. If we are meeting friends at a resturant, ask someone to help yu carry the baby (or put the baby in the stroller if you have an older child who you know likes to be held) and carry the toddler. Nothing the child wanted was bad. I am not saying a child should 'get everything they want', but we really have to take the time to ask ourselves if the child's needs are wrong.

(((HUGS))) I have so much respect for how well you ARE doing with two little ones and your DH deployed!

Does your dd have other issues, ie. walking or sensory defensiveness? Would taking her in a stroller so she can't throw herself on the ground be an option?

Two cheese sticks here is a good meal ;) LOL Here I am happy if they eat one cheese stick and my three year old is growing like a weed. Is your daughter's eating (or lack there of) effecting her growth or just her behavior? If it is just the behavior and she is growing really well having grazing options available may really help. A dish of non perishable food options in a toddler friendly location waiting so you aren't at her beck and call to fix things and she doesn't have to wait may help. If she is having growth issues it isn't always a good idea since kids can eat less that way (no always, it depends on the kid) since they never get really hungry or really full.

Good luck! I think you are doing a great job and I am happy you have your mother and MIL around!

:big hug:
I have so been there, I totally feel your pain:(

I would say you really need consistancy! Don't say it unless you mean it, and follow through with what you say. I know it is really hard and she is going to fight you tooth and nail, but stick to your guns and be consisitant!
Also try seeing it from her world and explain to her what she is feeling, "I see you are upset because we can't turn the tv on" and just keep repeating it if need be. She will then see that you realize that she is upset, but the tv isn't going being turn on. Sometime they just need you to reconize what they are feeling and it doesn't mean they are getting what they want but you understand.

If you are feeling angry with her, go take a time out yourself. Tell her you need to go have a time out until you are calm and do it. Lock yourself in the bathroom (with the baby if need be), but calm yourself down so that you deal with her calmly.

My dd is 7 and we still have battles, last night being one of them. I really try to be consisitant and don't let myself get caught up in the battle. Try to stay calm, for my dd if she sees me getting upset or angry it only gets worse.

Good Luck and Hugs mama!!

Yes- two cheese sticks and warm bread. A meal. Perhaps it was not eaten together, but it was eaten. That's appropriate food. I once watched a mother yell at her child "No you cannot have any cookies until you eat your chicken nuggets!" Seriously? Are chicken nuggets any less bad than cookies??? We gotta get a grip on this toddlers and food thing. :D

PS I added more to my above post. I keep editing to add more. Sorry about that.

wanted to add that I agree with laurie's post directly above this one about the warm bread and cheese sticks, that's a normal meal for a 3.5 yo. I'm not saying that she should be eating tons of food. I'm jsut saying that you're setting yourself up for frustrating days if you aren't consistent.

just wanted to add that sometimes when the girls dont eat whatever meal we are having and i know it is something they like, i will tell them no snacks or anything else. i will put it away, because they may very well not be hungry at the moment. but when they are hungry, i will heat it up or whatever and that is what they eat. sometimes we go through this a couple of times before its eaten, usually not, but i will not make a bunch of different things for none of it to be eaten. Again, i wouldnt do this if it was something they really didnt like or whatever.


It also sounds like eventhough she isnt napping she is still getting tired. I would make her have some quiet time, even if she doesnt sleep. Tell her she needs to sit on her bed w/ a few books to look at or something for 1/2 hr or so. My 4 yr old still naps most days, better now than she did at 2-3, but on days she doesnt she still has to have some quiet time. She needs the down time, and so do I. It really helps be to get through the rest of the day. I would think that a lot of the tantrums and such are from her being over tired.

:big hug: you are doing great! It will get better.

Toddlers are grazers. Can you have healthy snacks that she can get into when she is hungry? That way even if she isn't eating a meal at your designated mealtime, she is still filling he tummy with healthy choices throughout the day as her tummy is hungry. My kids graze all the time, but we have lots of healthy things to graze on so it doesn't bother me since they are growing fine and gaining weight.

For the bedtime thing, I would allow her to lay quietly on the couch or do quiet stuff until you get the baby to sleep. Then you can lay down with your 3.5 yr old and get her to sleep. If she hasn't had a nap all day, she should fall asleep fairly quickly if you lay down in her bed with her in a dark room. I had my kids close together so we had a baby, a 1.5 yr old and a 2.5 yr old, and what we did, was turn out all the lights in the house except night lights and the tv in the livingroom (tv was turned to a show I like that isn't bad for them to watch, so they would get bored and sleepy). I would lay blankets and pillows on the floor for my little ones and they would get to lay there and/or play quietly there while I got the baby to sleep. Sometimes the other kids would fall asleep while I was feeding and rocking the baby. If they didn't, after I put the baby into her crib, I would lay down on the floor with the other 2 kids and watch my shows until they fell asleep. That way I got to do something I enjoy at the same time as getting them to sleep, so I didn't resent them for taking too long to fall asleep. If the tv was too distracting for them, I'd shut off the lights and just lay next to them in the dark until they fell asleep. It usually didn't take long since they hadn't had naps that day, and a dark, quiet room is easy to fall asleep in.

For getting ready, we always helped our kids get ready rather than asking them to do so at that age. She's kind of young to be responsible for getting herself ready to go when asked.

And I agree that the lack of naps is making it hard for her to keep her composure later in the day like at the restaurant. At that age, when my kids dropped their naps, they all got cranky by dinnertime every evening, and they would get upset over almost anything. So, we limited doing any errands or activities that time in the evenings. We planned all outings for earlier in the day when they still had their composure. She will outgrow her crankiness from her lack of nap, but it will take some time. She's still young.

Teagan, just turned 3, is just as difficult I don't have the issues you have with a baby too, I have a 6 yr old.

my advice, that occasionally works

ignore her when she misbehaves - like laying on the curb, walk away into building. Of course keep an eye on her. Teagan will usually get up and run after me.

If you need to and can leave the room, go away from her tantrums. If you can't leave, tune her out, and do some deep breaths.

if she doesn't eat the meal, she doesn't eat! That is a hard one and took us some time but now it works. Teagan still often won't eat, but it is her choice cause she knows she isn't getting anything else later.

Put her in her room and let her have her fit. Close the door, walk away. I have gotten to the point when I can hear it in Teagan's cry that she has calmed down and is ready to be sorry and be behaved.

That's all I can think of now. Stick to your disipline, the leaving the room when they are having a fit works good, but it is really hard. I am such a softy for Teagan that it has taken my about 6 months to be as tough as I sound here.

Big hugs for you! I am right there with you and have the bruisies and bumps to prove it!

When you walk away from a tantruming toddler out on the curb, you are putting her in a mighty dangerous situation!Even if you do keep an eye on her. She could easily run and get slammed by a car.And leaving a tantruming child out on the street sends the message you don't care what happens to her.

A crying child needs something. You can wait it out-yes. But near them, talking to them, or just having your hand on their back. Tired, wiped out 3 yr olds cannot care for themselves. Screaming kids do muck up things, but that's life with small children.

3. The child in question is *3*. 3 3 3 3 3. *3*. Three yr olds need people to advocate for them, not find stronger rules for them to 'break'.

My 3 year old does exactly the same thing. I offer dinner..lunch..etc..what she eats is what she eats. I ignore her behaviour because it is just a stage. This is all about making sure I can cope. I walk away from yucky situations a lot...only so that I keep my cool. She bounces out of it sooner or later.

HUGS

I know it is hard. It will pass....

WWYD That was the orginal question, right. lol I got sidetracked on that. So here is what i would do if I were perfect. Since I am not, pretend I am for a minute. And pretend this poor mama does not have the huge stress of a dh deployed to Iraq. This is a fantasy, remember. :D

5:30 Get up and get dry cereal and a up of juice. Bring it back to room and put on little blanket on floor). Go back to closing my eyes. If I were very perfect, I would have a box of cereal and a juice box on my nightstand.

Help three yr old get dressed before I even leave my room

Sit at table and eat small breakfast of whatever with 3 yr old as I nurse the baby again. No eating in front of tv or alone. After a few minutes of chatting/eating clear off table. Leave grapes in bowl on table for random snacking.

Get myself ready to go to dentist. Get kids stuff ready to go to dentist. Help 3 yr old with coat. No talking about getting ready. Just help put coat on myself and go.

Dentist- Wow. You were so patient at the dentist. We need a little break after that. Let's go home and read books on my bed while I nurse the baby. Lets get a bunch of stuffies and you can play with them on my bed". McDonald's is not real food honey, you know we don't eat there". If you do eat there ask self why after being patient at dentist she can't have some sort of treat. If still crying, bring her home, put her on couch. Get baby, then sit and say "I know you're sad. Let's go read books on my bed like we talked about". If she still is crying. Sit near her while she finishes, nursing,reading a book to baby, whatever.

"Run and get a towel so we can mop of this mess. I know you didn't mean to do that. We've had such a long morning." Cut up fruit, don't care if she eats it or not. Let her eat at table with me as much or as little as she wants. Bring neat snack so she can sit on little blanket on floor while I nurse baby. Stay in room with her as I rest.

If she had not rested, I might not go to bank. If I go to bank and she falls alseep, assume she's gonna be cranky when she wakes up. If I do go to restaurnat to meet friends, will remember that she might be crankly and that I should leave before anything bad happens. Ask friends for help in carrying baby to restaurant. Or put baby in stroller. Bag restaurant as soon as it looks like it's not gonna work out. Say, "I have to go. She had such a long day. I think the stress of the dentist wiped her out. I'll call you tomorrow. Can someone help me get to car?"

Or if I go to restuarant, tell friends there how great dd did at the dentist. Let her eat bread, offer her a piece of my chicken or lasagna. Ignore whether or what she eats beyond that. Let her get ice cream (did great at dentist and did not get McD's). If she does take off socks, braces etc., go home. Day is plenty stressful without prolonging it.

Take child home, take pile of books and music cds and lie down in my bed. Nurse baby. Maybe offer one of those juice boxes. Maybe have little supper picnic on floor. Stay with her until she falls asleep. She has had a crappy long day. Call MIL and ask if she can babysit tomorrow for a liltle while so I can go to the bookstore and have a cup of coffee alone. Call best friend and cry about dh. Curse war. Write dh a letter/email telling him how beautiful our children, and how proud he would have been at how well dd did at the dentist.

Well, that's my fantasy world.

PS there is no war in my fantasy world.

Your daughter sounds like a pretty normal opinionated little girl to me. However, I'm pretty strict on behavior and food. My toddler grazes, but there are certain times of the day where grazing is not allowed - like after meals before the next snack time. She can't just pop down from the table (where a full assortment of things were offered so she could be choosy) and ask for cookies or crackers. A wonderful book to read is:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0915950839/104-6829137-8401553?v=glance

It's generally for people with kids who are having a hard time with feeding difficulties, but it's really a parenting guide for not making food a fight and teaching some respect for food/people as well. There's a few chapters that would apply for your family and the rest wouldn't... might be worth checking it out from the library just to skim the applicable parts.

Also, if you're having a hard time relating to her when she's "moody" I have gotten a lot of ideas from:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060923288/104-6829137-8401553?v=glance

I think a lot of the parenting suggestions in this book are great and really helped me calm down and learn how to handle my daughter while letting her be the energetic and opinionated girl she is. I know that parenting with books is looked down on by some folks, but the ideas, reminders, and reality checks I got from these authors really helped me reevaluate my parenting style and make some rules on what's expected and what's ridiculous to expect. It looks like everyone here takes a different approach with their kids and they've probably chosen what works for them. I hope you find what works best for your family!
hth..

I am so sorry you had a bad day. I have definitely been there, and I have a spouse who comes home every evening. You are doing a really hard job, and you deserve a pat on the back for trying as hard as you do. I am just sharing stuff we do that might or might not work in your family.

I am pretty strict about food, but I give my kids the option to eat almost every two hours during the time they're awake. I ALWAYS pick the food, as I base it on what each has eaten the rest of the day. Didn't eat breakfast? Cheese toast or apple with peanut butter for snack. That sort of thing. So, though I am strict, they have many opportunities to eat. Also, I absolutely NEVER comment on whether they have eaten or what part of a meal they eat, and dessert is not tied to what they have eaten. I have major personal food issues and this is my game plan to hopefully help them avoid some.

As far as I can tell, bedtime is just a transition point in the day that a little baby in the house can really mess up;) I have no good suggestions here except to say you might try getting one of tehm to bed earlier, so you only have to help one at a time. Evenings Dh is/was late getting home, I would let DS play in the tub while I got DD into bed. BUT, we have a really small house so I was never more than 10 feet away, and he was reliable in the tub, and I was desperate.

My last tip may be impossible in your situation, as you probably NEED to get out of the house. Anyway, when one of my kids is going through a spell like this (and they both cycle in and out of them) we just stay home. I take then absolutely nowhere. This is not punishment; it seems to help them feel more centered, and it gives us more time so getting dressed can take all day, breakfast can stay on the table until snack time, shoes never have to get put on, no one has to get in or out of a car, I am more likely to just sit and have one or both kids in my lap. Also, it's amazing how stressed I get just trying to leave the house sometimes, and I have discovered if I do not really care if we leave or not, then everything goes more smoothly.

Forgive this endless post. I hope some of it might be helpful. We all have bad days.

I have issues with food. My parents were strict about when I ate and what I ate. Did nothing but leave me with issues. Blerg.

Therefore, I try very hard to make food a pleasant necessity. I know it's difficult. Veronica has had two weeks now where the only foods eaten have been cheese sticks, American cheese, crackers, bagels, and pizza. Oh yes, two small pieces of chicken and three small pieces of broccoli.

It's nuts for me to remember all of that but I do. It helps me realize she is eating. And she does eat at strange intervals but I figure she eats when she's hungry.

I want her to listen to those cues her body gives her, not just follow a clock and eat when the clock says it's time to eat.

I eat when I'm bored. When I'm happy. When I'm sad. I really, really, really, want her food fate to be different from mine.

I know the resturant thing must be frustrating especially since you feel you need time out with friends. It has to be so difficult for you to be there with two babies and DH away.

For me resturants aren't an option with Veronica. We skip them. I miss it. *Sigh* So when my mother can watch her I go out as often as I can (which isn't that often!)

It sounds as though you just had a tough day. Hang in there, Mama. We're here for you.

Originally posted by amy373
I have issues with food. My parents were strict about when I ate and what I ate. Did nothing but leave me with issues. Blerg.


Me too. I was a very picky eater as a child and my parents and grandmother made that such a focus of my daily life. All it did was set me up for issues later in life. At one point, my mom talked to my ped because she was so exasperated with my eating "problems". He told her "relax, don't make an issue of it. She won't starve herself. Just make sure she has choices of foods she enjoys and trust her to know how much she needs." Mom finally let up after that, but I was already 7 or 8 and the damage had already been done.
Now that I have my own little picky eater (Keegan, who's 3.5) I have to remind myself of that all the time. It takes a conscious effort because I think it's a natural instinct to worry whether your child is eating enough/well enough.
But, as long as your dd is growing and healthy, relax a bit on the food issues. Don't turn it into a power struggle. Make sure she always has healthy choices that she likes. Trust her to know when she's hungry and when she's full and in turn she'll grow to trust her own body to tell her those things.

Natalie,

Can I tell you I've been having days like this as well with both my kids? My dd & I had an especially bad morning today that I am not proud of. It's now bedtime & I am finally not crying every so often. My ds only wants to eat snacky kinds of foods, not his meals & is spitting all the time. Neither of them have been sleeping & I am exhausted...but this isn't about me...

I am glad you have family around to help a bit & a sitter (neither of which I have right now so I am incredibly jealous! lol). But I do have friends to lean on when I need to. Support is so incredibly important!!!

The holidays, the deployment, the age of the children, and every other stress you have can really make what should be just something we would normally just deal with on a day to day basis escalate into such crazy situations that seem to be insurmountable.

I don't really have any advice because I'm dealing with many of the same issues & situations. I just want you to know you are not alone.:big hug:

Laurie's advice is exactly what I would have done/tried to/strived to. It's hard though, I know that. My son was strong willed like your daughter. 3 was the wirst age. From 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 was like the terrible twos times 10. LOL. He was fine at 2, but man, 3-4 was rough! It is normal, though hard, of course.

A few things I'd mention with your post? One, it sounds like she is not getting enough sleep. If she always rises early, no matter when you put her to bed, that's her. You can't force her to sleep longer. However you CAN put her to bed earlier. A lot earlier. Seriously.

The more over-tired she is, the more she will refuse and fight sleep. It's a bad never ending cycle that takes work to break. I think you need to do it. I know it sucks too, believe me, because you will live your life around her. (I guess that's what being a Mom is, huh? LOL) But it's no easier to know that other people have kids who they can put in bed at 8-9 pm, and the kids sleep til 7-9 am and get enough sleep. Your daughter is not like that. Many kids aren't. So you need to help her and work with her. It's really non-negotiable.

I think you should plan on being home nightly from 6 pm on. I know, sucks when and if most of your friends meet at that time, etc. But I think dinner at 5 to 5:30 is going to be best for her. With an hour and a half or less of winding down time after that. *No* TV unless it's a special holiday show once in a while, etc. A warm bath, stories, dim the house lights, quiet play only, etc. A healthy snack option before bed...things that will help her sleep and stick to her so she does not wake in hunger. Oatmeal, cereal bars and warm or cold milk, pb and j sandwich, crackers with pb, etc.

I think, really, she should be in bed by 7 pm latest. If she rises at 5:30 or even 6:30, she needs close to 12 hours sleep MINIMUM. I know very kids don't need that sleep, and those who have parents who say their kids don't need much sleep, but who really do? Have cranky kids, tired kids, wild and wired grouchy kids, etc. Sleep has a LOT to do with this. Rare is the 3-4 year old who needs less than 12-13 hours of sleep a day to function properly and happily.

I also think a nap could help, but you can't force her to sleep. So how about quiet time? Required? Lay down with her, read to her, have a quiet time in bed no getting off the bed and only books on the bed? Or lay with her or not and watch a quiet movie? She may, or may not, fall asleep. But quiet time is needed for her to re-charge, and for you too. Whether you lay with her or not. It's not mean or bad to talk to her and tell her the plan, that from now on we are going to have quiet time. We must stay on the bed, we can read or watch a quiet show (whatever you decide to allow) or etc. This can help keep her charged and rested, you charged and rested, and allow the little one to nap in peace and quiet.

I really believe with a few schedule changes you will have a much happier and easier to deal with preschooler. I think you will find it hard initially to schedule around it all, and NOT allow much of anything to keep you out past 5 pm, or 6 pm if eating out...and planning errands around quiet time. It's important imo. You will see the benefits and appreciate it, I am sure.

I remember having an easy time with stuff like this with my girls. My Aunt would comment on how she was tied to the house when her kids were young since anything messing up their semi-scheduled day would cause havoc. That they HAD to be kept on a pretty good bedtime routine, and nap or quiet time one too. She was amazed my girls could sleep in the car, or nap, or adjust to later times, etc. I thought she was nuts! That all kids could be adaptable and that it was her. LOL.

Then came my son. And I realized wow, I was fighting it, but I needed to do what she had done. For his sake, and mine. It worked. It was not easy, but the benefits were so worth it. And they grow out of it. One day you will be able to come and go at any time, run bank runs anytime, have late dinners and be fine...but for now, it sounds to me like she needs some more routine, and more sleep.

JMO. (o:

When you walk away from a tantruming toddler out on the curb, you are putting her in a mighty dangerous situation!Even if you do keep an eye on her. She could easily run and get slammed by a car.And leaving a tantruming child out on the street sends the message you don't care what happens to her.
I've only skimmed through most of the responses after mine, crazy day here, but I wanted to point out just in case there was any misunderstanding that when I wrote I leave if my kids tantrum like that, I didn't mean I leave them (as in, walk away from them) I mean, we ALL leave and get in the car and go home. I'd never, EVER leave a child alone in a public place, too many scary people in the world even if you are just around the corner. And how scary it would be for a child who is already out of control to see mom walk away from them :(

I do agree with Denise, I think that sleep might be the big issue here, which is why I asked if this behaviour started when she eliminated the naps. My guys are all early rises (not 5:30 anymore, thank God! But before 7 for sure) and they are in bed by 7:30 at the latest, even the 5.5 year old. When they are overtired it is awful for everyone, and you can tell they are just miserable.

Mama,
I did not read all the posts, but I'll tell you what, it all sounds incredibly familiar, and, guess what? DS's birthday is June 1, 2001. It has to be incredibly hard without your DH there.

I have so been there. Thankfully, DS #1 has decided to take the bus to school (since about October), so I am not dealing with DS #2 throwing himself on the floor at school after we drop DS#1 off nearly every morning. I have stopped completely taking him to the bread outlet, which for some reason just throws him into a frenzy.

What helps me is to remember how old he is. For a long time, I've treated him as so much older than he is, and I have to stop and think, he's just little, he needs me. He needs my understanding and my patience. I don't always have them to offer. But I am trying, and even a little bit seems to go a long way. Things have not been so bad with him as they were for a little while. I don't know whether he has changed or I...

Another thing I have found is that I just have to do things instead of talking about them. Not what do you want to eat, because he'll probably say, "Nothing" or "Candy," but put something good in front of him. Many times, he will eat it. If I say, come let me change your diaper or come get dressed, nothing, and I can yell all day for all he cares, so I just have to get him and dress him, etc. This can be hard with a baby in tow, I know, but it can get ridiculous otherwise, at least for us. . No discussion, just action.

I am thinking of you, though, and I have to say, it's good for me to read some of the posts because it reminds me of where I need to be with him, especially as two very trying weeks approach for us!

(((((HUGS!!!)))))

your child sounds alot like my dd.

what helped me a ton is to read 'spirited child' to look at things in a diffrent way.

as far as food and sleep issues - with Syd I have been tryng to have her listen to her body. I have her sit down with us for dinner but if she says she is full she needs to realize there will be no desert untill her dinner is gone. I usoly give her very small portions as she can ask for more if she is still hungry. if she does not finnish it goes into the fridge untill she says she is hunggy again. which usoly starts a whinning session of 'I dont waaant that':rolleyes: so I ask what she wants and then say you can have 'x' if you eat some of what is leftover in the fridge. often time she wants me to help feed her or needs a spoon to do it herself. I also try and have small snacks set out for her to munch on or ready in the fridge for her to grab when she wants to.

Syd can throw some killer tantrums - where as I want to run away as soon as I can. are you able to get a break now and then? is your child a social butterfly where as you are more quiet? (thats me :) ) I have been thinking of putting her in pre-school so she can get her fix of being social but also worry about her behavior as she is a bear with me and I would be :o if she did that with others.

as for picking on the baby - my ds picks on dd when he is bored so I find jobs for him to help me with. dd often wants to help also.
yah I have to redo some things - but thats the profectionest in me ;)

:hug: things will get better.

edited to add - with food you also need to look at what they eat over the week not the meal or day. for ex. Syd is on her second PB sandwich - some days she eats a ton of carbs (bread, cereal, crackers) and others she want a ton of fruit. I try and sneak some fruit and vegies in to oatmeal, eggs, pasta sauce, etc.

I would also agree that it's pretty typical 3 year old behavior.

The one thing that really works with my 3 1/2 year old is to avoid power struggles as much as possible and instead use the "first" approach. If I want him to ___ (pick up his toys, get dressed for school, etc), I first give him some advanced notice. We have a "5 minute bell" and a "one minute bell" to doing things, and since giving these "bells" ahead of time, I've reduced my power struggles dramatically. At school his teacher uses "number one is pee on the potty, number two is put on your coat, number three is go outside" etc and that really helps too. I think that advance warning is really helpful for toddlers because it gives them a sense of what's coming next. Sometimes I think they balk at doing anything because they just weren't all that aware that it was going to happen.

The other way I have avoided power struggles is to simply not get into them in the first place. If Noah refuses to pick up his toys, I just let it go. But when he comes to me (usually within 5 minutes) with a request such as a snack or help or to play with him or whatever, I will say "first let's clean up your toys, then you can have your snack." If he doesn't want to, I let it go, and the next time he asks for something, I say "first . . . . " Besides avoiding power struggles, I think this gives him a sense of the reciprocity of helping in a family-- you give me what I want, and I'll give you what you want. Win/win, whereas trying to force obedience or compliance is pretty lose/lose.

The other thing that has really helped, especially at those times such as when he wants to be carried but I can't, or something similar, is to sing a silly song about it. At Noah's preschool, they have a song for everything-- including a simple song that goes "clean up, clean up, let's clean up" which really helps when picking up his toys. Singing while walking, making up something like "big step, little step" or just counting steps can often make those mundane tasks almost fun. Of course, people will look at you funny when you sing, but they'll look at your funny when your toddler is hollering, too. Being silly helps me be less stressed about the whole thing, too.

I can't imagine how hard it must be for you to not have a break at all, with two little kids. You're amazing.

Karla

I have a son that sounds very suinilar to your daughter. One of the best things we've done is introduce him to the 1, 2, 3 Magic.
Also, cut out most or all suger, and refined foods.
Make bed time a "set" time. If he isn't sleepy, then he can play quietly in his room, but *not* come out.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tinyterror'sma
I made her cheese & grapes - she ate a few bites; sausage - she ate none - pancakes - took over 1 hour of me constantly reminding her to eat & turning off the TV (she had asked for both the sausage & pancakes)

***No TV while eating. Sits at kitchen table and just eats. If not hungry then may leave table.***

lunch - a battle - 2 moz. sticks - that's it

***Again, no battle. Lunch is at the table with no TV. Eat a healthy , varied meal, or go hungry. No treats til lunch is eaten.***

at naptime, she goes into baby's room & gets her all stirred up

***Not allowed in baby's room at naptime.***

4:30 - go to bank - she falls asleep in car
go to meet Mothers & More friends at Macaronni Grill - we're early but baby wakes up crying so can't sit in car.

***When I want a "peaceful" dinner, I hire a babysitter. Find a good one you can trust. Call the principal of the local highschool. Ask at your church. ***

home at 8 PM - let her watch DVD & eat ice cream - warn her that it will only be a few minutes - we agree to 8:30 but then no songs at bed.

***Why are you giving her ice cream and allowing a DVD after the behavior dispalyed at dinner? And she didn't even really eat dinner right?***

9:00 agree that she can have apples in bed (I know this is a stall as I have to cut the apples) - she knocks over the cat food & water (again) trying to help - tell her a story - eats 2 apples & says she doesn't like them - wants mangos.

***Tough. She can eat to eat the apples.***

9:30 done & amazed that we both lived through another day

***Put her to bed at 8 so you can save your sanity.***

What I can do to end the constant nagging & food issues?

***Again, no nagging, the food is on the table. Either sit and eat or go hungry. You really don't believe she's gonna starve herself til she faints? It's not like you're feeding her liver and onions right?***

I have a babysitter 1 day a week so I can work & run a few errands. Mom or inlaws help on weekends but it's the constant battles of every meal & bedtime that are killing me.[B]xxx[\B]

I totally agree with Laurie and Denise. I also have to agree with the mamas with food issues and the control and/or focus on food and eating habits as children. Kids will not starve if food is available. I don't like all food and neither will my kid. I'm not always hungry at "meal times" and neither is my kid. I can't expect more from her than I expect from myself!

It's tough being a "single" parent, and sounds like your 3 yr old is really having a hard time with daddy being away and mommy being busy with baby.

Our philosophy - feed a hungry child what they will likely eat (within reason, look at the weekly diet, not daily), encourage a sleepy child to rest/sleep, spend some time/attention with a "misbehaving" child and give thyself a break prn. ;)

:big hug:

HI - thanks everyone.

Today was much better. I remembered to give her positive feedback as often as possible. This has made a big difference.

She ate lunch at the table.

only 1 tantrum - when I woke her up off the couch at 5 PM (she fell asleep at 3:30) - which I knew & was ready for.

We even babysat another toddler so that next Thurs. morning she'll babysit my baby & I can get a hair cut.

I'll read through the posts in more detail later & check out those books.

going to limit TV more & take healthy snacks as meals when needed


Mostly going to love her more as she needs it.

PS- DH isn't in Iraq (thank god) but in a non-war desert

Honey, it's gonna be ok. ((Really)) It's so stressful, but no more hitting, no matter what.

None of us had children so our lives could be easier. We had children so we would be challenged to new heights of super-human emotional strengths. :hahaha: How unfair is that??? So unfair. lol I never thought about any of this when I was pregnant with my first. it was all going to be bliss. ;)

I didn't read the other responses so forgive me if I repeat. I think you are offering too many choices. Also, I think she is picking up on you having issues about her eating. Kids know what they can control and food is one of the few things. Back off the food.

Offer say, two choices for each meal, and then stick with her choice. You are not her servant, so don't prepare everything under the sun for her. I think she may be acting out for you because she is getting away with too much, and that can be scary to a kid - they want limits. Really.

Have a set time after which mealtime is over, and the bedtime issues will be that much less complicated. Hope I helped a bit and you took this with a grain of salt, as I don't know you. Just my take.

PS - I wanted to add about food...

I fix meals and Ava doesn't have to eat them if she's not hungry or says she doesn't like what I've prepared...in that case, I ask her to take a "No Thank You" bite, so that she really knows what she's refusing. I would say that probably 80% of the time she ends up eating what I've offered. ;)

But sometimes she really doesn't like it, and I don't want to force her to eat anything. Kids have different taste sensations than adults, so something we love may be too rich, too spicy, too salty, too bland etc. If she still doesn't want it after the "no thank you" bite, I offer a "standard" food she does like, such as PB & J, apples/cheese, yogurt w/granola etc.

update in OP

Good for you Natalie. Doesn't that feel nice? Try and establish some predictable routines in her day. Preschoolers thrive on routine.

Delsym does often work for a bit. I would only take it at night, though. You want to get that stuff broken up, rather than supress it. But you also need sleep.

On the evening when you'd mentioned her meltdown after 8, you'd also mentioned that she had ice cream at 8 and then apples. I find if any of the girls have anything sweet after 5 pm, that bedtime is horrible. They get too wound up and then aren't ready to sleep or even calm down. Just a bad scene. If they really need food, I offer cheese or something along those lines. Nothing sweet.

My middle dd is my very picky one. I spoke to her child psych dr about this. He suggested offering 2 choices and leaving it at that. Rather than "what would you like", making something else if she refuses the first and with out harassing her to eat. This has been working really well. I give her 2 choices for lunch. She'll complain and whine. I just smile and offer the same 2 things. If she starts to carry on, I let her know that she is aware of her 2 choices and to let me know when she's ready to choose one. I'll get busy doing something else near by. I won't argue or push, just offer those 2 things. 9 times out of 10, she'll come back around with in 10 minutes asking for 1 of the things.

I think it's good to offer choices but not too many. I find that offering 2 things works well since they are happy to have a choice but I'm not leaving the door open for just anything. I've told her to just say "no thank you" if someone offers something she doesn't like. I think power struggles over food are not the way to go. Her dr also agreed. I know some people do the clean the plate club thing and he said that's just awful.

If we are going someplace & one of the girls has a big meltdown on arrival, we just leave. I feel that's just setting us all up for a hectic meal. I can have a crazy meal at home and save the $$. I know that certain situations are trouble everytime. I have to get a sitter to grocery shop (I'm a single mom) since I know I can't take my 2 year old to the store.

Good luck!

LOl I meant to post the cough stuff on the cough post.

And I meant to post something else here.

Honey- you will be OK. Remember why you became a parent-- to love and nurture an emotionally healthy child to adulthood. Have fun with her, understand that she is small and looking to your for guidance. Relax and enjoy her (I know people say this all the time)-- protect her, don't engage her. Forget about food right now. Swear to the gods-- it will be better for all of you right now.

I didn't think you were suggesting to drug my child - so I just overlooked that post.

Thanks though

lol I know you meant to post that response with a winkie, right? ;)

Not that I am insecure or anything:D

Laurie you rock! But if you are going to suggest something to drug a child delsym doesn't make you drowsy. ;) :D

I have to agree that alot of what you are experiencing are normal 3 yo behaviors. E will be 3 in Jan and he is already starting to need more structure and routine and schedule.

Plus I have to say that we all have rest time in the afternoon. After lunch the boys pick a video to watch in their playroom and then they go to "rest time". They have to lay on their beds quietly for a short time. Both of them still fall asleep and I think they still need it (oldest is 5). I put the baby down for a nap about the same time and it gives me a little bit of time in the afternoon of quiet.

This is my favorite quote "None of us had children so our lives could be easier. We had children so we would be challenged to new heights of super-human emotional strengths. " I think it is great.

Robin, you are so sweet. Thank you. I meant a winky after writing that line. Who knows going into it that it will be so darn hard?

Edited to add: I just looked. I put the hysterically lauging icon after that quote. . Whew. lol

i wanted to add something- i agree with laurie that she is only 3.

some other points- she misses her dad too. she feels your stress. and she doesnt get as much attention as she used to with a baby around.

at 3, i dont believe you can be an older sibling. she is still a baby herself.

and something really really important that i always try to remind myself. am i upset with the child because i am in a bad mood? chances are the answer is yes in my situation.

she does still need help dressing and getting ready. 3 year olds cant comprehend time management. it may be that you have to get up a little earlier to take care of the other things before you need to help her. sit with her for a few minutes while she eats. tv isn't good for eating. my 6 year old still grazes! they say it is actually better for them- although it is inconventient for us.

parenting is not convenient. really, it isn't. but, it doesnt last forever- sooner than you know she will be out of this stage of trying to figure out who she is and into the stage where she not only knows who she is, but also everything else in the universe. lol. then, the childhood days are over.

one last thing. give choices before meals. if she doesnt like one thing, say, you have a choice of two-- if she wont eat dinner or lunch, then offer her something simple like a sandwich... you are making the choice to give her lots of foods. chances are she really likes that one on one attention she is getting while you are making her that 5 course meal that she wont even eat!

and more than anything, much love. its so hard. believe me when i tell you-- it's worth it in the end. and it really wont last forever. :big hug:

am