The child was about 7 and he was trying to get out of the cart. His mom warned him to stay in the cart or she would spank him. He tried again so she got him out and spanked him right in the Christmas section. http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/frown.gif I had no clue what to do because, frankly, she wouldn't have handled it well if I had said anything to her. But then I got pissed off because she spanked him right in front of my 16 month old. Not something I want her to see. http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/mad.gif How do you mamas handle this sort of thing (and I'm very non-confrontational, so there's probably no way I'd yell at her and call the cops.) If I had it to do over again, I guess I would have tried to distract the little boy... I don't know. The whole thing has just made me sick to my stomach.

Becky
Mom to Geneva!

Wow, that's a really hard situation to be in. It's scary to think what things are like at home if that is what's happening in public, kwim?

IME - I send the mama and the child some gentle thoughts/prayers and try to think of something to say that will perhaps difuse the situation. Many times if I see or hear that the mama is getting to her limit, I will talk to the child - "It's pretty boring looking at vacuum cleaners, isn't it?" or to the mama "Sometimes it's so hard to entertain them while shopping, I ususally grab things off the shelves - anything to keep them interested." and just that connection with either of them seems to ease the mounting tension, sometimes anyway.

Of course, it's really difficult to know how they will respond with any intervention at all...but what I try to remember is that the mama doesn't need MORE aggravation (like a bystander making a rude comment or having someone tell her she's beating her child and should go to jail) - because that will likely be transferred into her anger at the child. The mama typically needs some empathy, understanding and support. All of those things can go a long way for a mama who is tired, stressed, distracted, aggravated and perhaps isn't her best self at that moment and will likely be embarrassed later. KWIM???

Obviously, if a woman is really abusing her child something needs to be done...but it's really hard to know what to do sometimes.

I hope that you feel better about this soon. I understand the frustration and heartbreak you feel for that boy.

Hugs Mama!

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<font color=blue>~Amy ~ President, Ava Marie Fan Club ~</font color=blue>

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Amy posted some really good ideas. I don't always use them though. Sometimes, especially when my dd gets scared and starts crying (which is 80% of the time) I hold her and tell her *very loudly* that it is ok. I will protect her. I will not let that person hurt her. I know it's mean, but in some situations I think it has actually helped the other parent see how their behavior affects others around. Like one time at a restaurant, this woman came into the restaurant just screaming at her toddler who obviously just wanted to go home and take a nap. Well, she was screaming at her child (had everyone's attention in the restaurant) and then I hear a slap and the child starts crying while the mother continues to scream and the father is just standing there. Gillian saw this and started wailing! All the attention turned to us and I very loudly let it loose that what that woman had done was innappropriate. My dd didn't calm down for like 10 minutes! The waiter came to make sure we didn't need to leave and I told him we don't hit our children and her seeing that was very difficult.

I hope this does not offend anyone. That is not my intent.

On the other hand, I have a friend who does spank his children and used to get upset at people who would disagree with how he was trying to parent in the supermarket. He went so far as to place his disobedient son in the woman's cart and said if she could handle it better go ahead and walked away. (I would have seriously kept the child.)

So now we enter an area where one would ask, how much respect do we give the other parents? He is the type of person that if you tried interferring in any way you would get an earfull.



<font color=purple>Sheri
<font color=black>sah-ap and beginning ncp, exbf, fb, non-vax, nc, cd, hs mom to
<font color=blue>Kyle 8/22/97
<font color=red>Gillian 3/19/99

I could tell that the woman was really frazzled. It was obvious (to me at least) that they just needed to stop shopping and go home. I don't know her story, though. I don't know how we crossed paths, but I do know that it taught me that I will try my hardest to NEVER humiliate anyone in public like that. Maybe that's all I was supposed to get from it, kwim?

Becky
Mom to Geneva!

Recently I was in the grocery store and a man came walking down the aisle and running after him was a little girl maybe 4 yo. he saw her and yelled "who told you that you could come with me???!!" he picked her up by one arm and hit her **hard** on her back. She started crying and he pulled her still by the one arm through the store saying "shut up! where is your mother? shut up! " NOBODY even looked twice at him. I was so upset and didn't know what to do. I started to follow him (don't know what I would have done) and dh is yelling to me to come back and mind my own business. then ds started crying because he could tell I was upset and then daddy was upset. So, I did what was best for ds and came back, gave him a hug and apoligized. I mentioned something to the cashier and she just shrugged. then I mentioned something to the bagger who didn't know what to say but finally said "when I have kids, I will never spank them" probably just to make me stop talking about it. :) needless to say he got a good tip.

sorry to go on about my story....I guess I would say in your situation I would have tried to say something to the mom or kid before it got to that point. I know sometimes when I get stressed out in the store, I feel a little better when someone says something to me. not that I would get angry enough to hit, but I just need to remember to take a breath sometimes :)

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<font color=green>Shannon</font color=green><font color=purple>, shurshie mommy to "two babies on the couch". </font color=purple><font color=blue>JJ</font color=blue><font color=purple> (12-98) and</font color=purple><font color=red> Janae</font color=red><font color=purple> (12-00). Not pictured (or shurshied)</font color=purple><font color=orange> Jason</font color=orange><font color=purple>, dh (11-96). </font color=purple>
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You're supposed to tip the bagger???



<font color=purple>Sheri
<font color=black>sah-ap and beginning ncp, exbf, fb, non-vax, nc, cd, hs mom to
<font color=blue>Kyle 8/22/97
<font color=red>Gillian 3/19/99

I tip the sackers if they help me put the groceries in my car. Going rate around here is $1. Usually, I don't get help, but sometimes you just need it, lol!

Becky
Mom to Geneva!

oh, I live on a military base and this was in the commissary, the baggers work for tips only. I think in the regular grocery stores, they aren't allowed to accept tips


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<font color=green>Shannon</font color=green><font color=purple>, shurshie mommy to "two babies on the couch". </font color=purple><font color=blue>JJ</font color=blue><font color=purple> (12-98) and</font color=purple><font color=red> Janae</font color=red><font color=purple> (12-00). Not pictured (or shurshied)</font color=purple><font color=orange> Jason</font color=orange><font color=purple>, dh (11-96). </font color=purple>
feedback thread http://www.amitysworld.com/dcf/DCForumID9/451.html#

You might want to check out this website. Just some thoughts on the subject.HTH.
http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/intervention1.html

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...Lisha...</font color=blue>http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/smile.gif
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Thank you. That was a good article. Answered many questions for me.



<font color=purple>Sheri
<font color=black>sah-ap and beginning ncp, exbf, fb, non-vax, nc, cd, hs mom to
<font color=blue>Kyle 8/22/97
<font color=red>Gillian 3/19/99

I guess I'm just a rude person, because I have this unhealthy tendency to yell at people who hit their kids in front of me. Silence, for me, feels like complacency and I simply *cannot* witness it without saying something.

I shouted this smug little teenybopper mom down at Bed Bath and Beyond once who slapped her toddler *twice* across the face, I got mad at a woman who slapped her 18 month old son's hand as hard as she could for throwing a toy and told her not to hit other people, and had a starting contest at a playplace with some lady that thought it was a good idea to hit her 4 year old because he ran into his little sister. I have NO patience with people who strike others.

My mother was with me at the Bed Bath and Beyond incident (I honestly didn't mean to yell but I was absolutely enraged) and asked me afterwards why I got so upset. I thought for a minute and asked her what she would ahve done if she'd seen a man hit his wife right in front of her. She thought a minute and then said that she saw my point.

I suppose that I need to find more effective ways of dealing with 'hitters' because here in the South we have a lot. There are incidents here almost every time we go somewhere. I know in my mind that there are probably better ways of going about expressing my disapproval. But part of me, I gues the ruling part, wants that child to know that it's not okay to be hit, and I always say that- that people should never hit other people.

It's a really hard thing to have to deal with. But honestly I think that my vocal commentary on public acts of domestic violence (which is what striking a child is, after all) has helped my daughter process witnessing it. It also helped her when it was directed at her by an idiot neighbor- who took it upon herself to leave a handprint on my childn's body that was visable for 24 hours and left a bruise.

I dunno, good, bad or indifferent I can't keep my mouth shut.

Amy O.
Soulmate to Shannon
Mommy to Maggie and Liam (born at home!)
~@*~@*~@*~@*~@*~@*~@*~@*~@*
"Hope is like a path in the countryside.
Originally there was no path.
Yet, as people walk all the time in the same spot,
a way appears."
~Lu Xun

Well if dh had seen this scene, he'd be causing a scene himself! lol! Saying: "Want me to spank you for not listening?" People usually look at him as if he were crazy! ROFL! (I love my dh dearly! http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/wink.gif) Some will swear at him and that's when he's really having fun, telling them that a child shouldn't be spank 'cause it hurts and that they never deserve to be hurt. He'd be more that happy to show them how much a spanking can hurt! lol!

Dh is 6' 200lb and rather large built so when he says "want me to spank you?" People usually stop hitting there child and move on away from us pretty fast! http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/wink.gif

Know that I am sharing this in good fun. Dh has his ways sometimes! http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/wink.gif But he always gets enough attention so that the person hitting stops and just go and mind their business.

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The thing is, hitting is violence. Period. No one would expect a person to have to watch a man beat his wife in Target, or anywhere, without calling the police!!!
I do not see a difference between hitting a child and hitting an adult, except that an adult has "rights" and can run away from their abuser!!!
My son has never seen a child hit, and I will keep him from seeing such violence as long as I can. Sorry you had to go through that.

Blessings,

MerMommy to Kaden Dylan Atlantic, 3 years old and baby-to-be in April 2002.

When I read some of the responses to this thread, I feel sad and conflicted. Here is my philosophy for why I respond how I do in this situation.

1) spanking is NOT a crime in this country, unless it turns into 'abuse' or beating children. (right or wrong, this is the case - obviously I would like to see this changed)

2) Sometimes parents spank out of desperation or lack of other alternatives when they are highly stressed. (doesn't make it okay, but it does make it a bit more understandable in some cases)

3) 'Nailing' someone who is obviously in distress and is taking their anger out on their children doesn't seem to be my best course of action, because I want to protect the child after they LEAVE as well. My offensive interference could potentially exacerbate the issue, cause the parent to become even more angry, create an "I'll show you" sort of backlash or any number of things.

4) We are parents, and we are HUMAN. Who knows, the mama spanking her child at Target may be a single mama working two jobs and still getting evicted for not paying the rent. Her dh may have been laid off. She may be depressed. She likely feels overwhelmed. NONE of this excuses spanking or condones it. But I would much rather connect with the parent and child, perhaps shifting the situation into one more manageable for both.

5) I am much more likely to have a lasting impact on the parent if I'm able to connect with him/her empathically, without judgement, without shame or guilt. I may even be able to offer some alternatives or resources if we can compassionately communicate about the situation.

6) I try to remember that spankers WERE spanked! I wouldn't wish that upon anyone, and if I can empathize with the child being spanked in front of me...I can certainly empathize with the parent in front of me who WAS spanked as a child. It is a learned behavior.

7) Using violent language to respond to a violent situation is NOT a solution. It's part of the whole problem, on a global level!

I hope this explains why I do what I do. I'm more likely to reach a spanker by setting a compassionate example with them.

Edited to add: If you haven't read the article that Lisha linked above, please take the time to read it. Jan Hunt is much more eloquent than I, and she lays things out beautifully in this case.

<font color=purple>PEACE!</font color=purple>

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<font color=red>Sweet Ava Marie, Diva in Training and her Daddy, DH in Training (and worth saving!)</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by Shohanee on Sun Dec 30 02:10 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Oh Amy. <giggle> I think that was eloquent enough!

I hope it wasn't in response to what I originally wrote, because I did read the article and change my tune. But in my defense, I didn't always react that way. And when you are in the position of having a very sensitive chld and they are reacting to what they just saw, then you tend to want to protect them and react yourself. Not that that is a good excuse. I certainly have been stressed out in the store with my children and been close to that string breaking wishing I had company who could help. That's why I won't react that harsh way again.

This has been such a wonderful thread and I have enjoyed discussing it and reading responses. Such wonderful women you are here!



<font color=purple>Sheri
<font color=black>sah-ap and beginning ncp, exbf, fb, non-vax, nc, cd, hs mom to
<font color=blue>Kyle 8/22/97
<font color=red>Gillian 3/19/99

It's not really anyone's individual post, I just want to be clear that verbally humiliating someone who is angry and taking their anger out on their child is not necessarily helpful. It's potentially damaging.

Chosing a compassionate approach, does not excuse the behavior or condone it. It prevents adding more violent energy into the situation. KWIM?

There are times where I've thought of how I would like to respond after the fact, and try to keep those in mind. In my worst parenting moment, would I want someone to come down harshly on me in public? No, I'm already feeling horribly guilty, remorseful, ashamed and thinking I'm a terrible mother.

I'm rambling now, we all do what we do for various reasons...I just want my reasons to be clear and restating them met my need for clarity and understanding. http://www.amitymama.com/images/icons/smile.gif

I agree with you though, it's been a very helpful and enlightening thread!

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I was a child who was spanked in public. The one time that someone said something to my mother about it, she turned very "nicey-nice" in the store...steamed the whole way home in the car, and I was BEATEN once we got home. Because...it was MY fault that she had been embarassed. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't agressively confront spankers! You may very well make things WORSE for that child. :-(



~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
thidwick

Working To Raise My Children Compassionately

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