sutton is now 13 days old and hasn't had abm in 4 days-(and when he did, it was
2oz a day- for 3 days back when the ped and lc were refusing he needed his fren clipped and they were convinced he was hungry due to my bfar)...yet, he still has green mucousy stools. i've noticed a
TINY bit of seeds in it the last dipe change-but it still looks like a f/h
imbalance to me...just trying to figure out how it's possible since he nurses on
my "good" breast for hours at a time, is never "off me" (in sling and has access
to boob) and i am offering the "not so good" side after he drains the plentiful
side at every nursing.

?? this is so frustrating!

any ideas of what else i can look for or do to remedy this situation with his
poop?

i've never seen poop like this that HASN'T been f/h imbalance. it's just so mucousy.

i've posted this on the bfar list but got no response, so i'm bringing it here to see if anyone has experienced this firsthand.

it sounds like too much foremilk to me, too....
my only suggestion (though it sounds like you're doing it already) is to nurse on one breast for a few feedings without offering the other side...
i'd give him a few more days to get his gi system regulated. now that you're making lotsa milk, he'll get his groove any day now ;)

**eta: i just re-read your post --- try not offering him the "not so good side" at every feeding. even when you think you've drained the good side -- let him stay on it to ensure he gets the hindmilk....just my coupla pennies as a ibclc ;)

That's how my dairy allergic dd started out. First was the mucousy stools then came the massive spitting up.

She wasn't cranky or gassy so I didn't suspect allergy at first.

A couple of suggestions from a mama who has btdt x3.

Only use one side for 3 hours, then switch to the other side. If this doesn't help (and you will know quickly if it does) then go longer per side.

Another idea is to pump bfore you latch him on. Although, if he is attached almost all the time, this might not help too much. ;) What about letting the majority of the 'rush' of milk go into a breastpad or a container to freeze.

With Nathan, I had to nurse him on one side only for 8-12 hours in order for the green stools to subside. When he was tiny it was 12 hours, and I was able to move up to 8 after he was a bit older (like 6-8 mos, maybe). My other babies who dealt with this were fine with about 3 hours per side. Made nighttime nursing even easier - no swithing sides all night long. :D Just one side all night long.

Good luck, I hope this helps!

I was going to suggest the possibility of a dairy allergy also. Mucous in the poop is one of the signs. Just an idea. Hope you figure it out soon. Good luck mama.

Originally posted by bubbles
I was going to suggest the possibility of a dairy allergy also. Mucous in the poop is one of the signs. Just an idea. Hope you figure it out soon. Good luck mama.

ITA. green mucousy poop is a big allergy sign for us. If you rule out foremilk/hindmilk, I'd investigate allergy/sensitivity.

We finally figured out a dairy allergy with dd and her stools were nasty green mucousy and she didn't gain weight very well till I quit basically all dairy in every form! Hope you get it figured out soon. Good Luck, Tina

Kas-that is how it was with me both times I had it too. What the LC's told me (and all the great mamas here when I came for help--you included!!) was to try and either pump a little before or let the good side express into a towel after your letdown has occured to lessen the amount of foremilk he gets.

LC told me that green poop is almost always fm/hm imbalance...especially with the "frothy" consistency

If it is any consolation, the problem with Isabella finally went away at about 3 months!!

the not having a bowel movement in so many days sounds more like fm/hm imbalance than a dairy allergy to me though...just my personal .02 on that one! dairy allergy *tends* to have more bowel movements because of the occurence of diary that *can* happen with milk allergies.

:hug:

Originally posted by jessica_momof6
the not having a bowel movement in so many days sounds more like fm/hm imbalance than a dairy allergy to me though...just my personal .02 on that one! dairy allergy *tends* to have more bowel movements because of the occurence of diary that *can* happen with milk allergies.

:hug:

:) Looks like we're both up late tonight!

she was referring to artificial baby milk (abm) or formula...not "a bm"

Kas...how is your soy intake? Not just soy milk, tofu & miso, but mayonaise and margarine? GASP...prepared meals? Like "in a box" stuff? I tend to rely too heavily on that carp when I'm dealing with a nb and my dh is working again (he does'nt go away like yours but is prone to 12-15 hour days). Anything that says anything about "soybean oil", hydrogenated or otherwise...

Do you take lecithin? Also a soy product.

I ask because I had this with DS3 (rather, he had this, LOL). He also had projectile vomiting in profuse amounts. We had him screened (via US) for pyloric stenosis, it was THAT bad. Turns out it was soy. In MY diet...I'd been eating potato salad, macaroni salad, cold cut sandwhiches, etc etc because those were what the meal fairies brought, LOL. Little did I know it was toxic to my DS...we had green stools for a long time. He did get to earthy brownish yellow but never had seeds like my other 2, regardless of what I did. I think now (in hindsight) that he may have had a dairy problem too because at 2 1/2 he cannot drink cow straight. He can eat cheese and yogurt (since about 18-20mo) but is horribly rashy over milk. He still vomits if he gets too much soy. A lady where we were last week (can't recall now) gave him an oreo and I found out later (I wasn't right with him apparently) when his bum went hamburger on us. It was awful for 4 days. Over just one cookie! Which is full of soy...

Good luck to you...you are an inspiration :)
:heart:

Originally posted by Snugglbond
:) Looks like we're both up late tonight!

she was referring to artificial baby milk (abm) or formula...not "a bm"



hahahaha!! Can you tell I am tired...I just ASSumed that she was typing to fast and didn't put a space between the a and the bm.....of course, I was reading so fast that I missed the 2 oz sentence! :hahaha: where is the dunce cap for me?

anyway, with Lexie she actually stopped having normal bowel movements at 2 weeks....which I was told was normal for a fm/hm imbalance....but I noticed with Isabella that it was not that way...so who knows :p

You ladies are so smart!! I thought I knew a lot about bf, but I have never had, nor know anyone who has issues with fm/hm. Very interesting to me! I hope, Kas, that whatever the issue is, it is resolved quickly and easily. (My mom had 3 kids, and told me that she learned the most from the last one. Could that be true for you too? :D)

Off to do some reading about this!

Amy

That was my dairy intolerant kiddos too. Green, mucousy, not much seediness. If it's a dairy intolerance it will take a bit for his system to re-regulate. I'd give it a month, actually. If you still notice a problem, (and he's not losing lots of weight or anything) then I'd start cutting dairy and hidden dairy from your diet. It was tough for me to do that but really it was only about 4 months before I could start adding some things back that I'd been missing, like sour cream, lol.

(((hugs))) and I hope it clears up for you quickly.

Originally posted by lisak
That's how my dairy allergic dd started out. First was the mucousy stools then came the massive spitting up.

She wasn't cranky or gassy so I didn't suspect allergy at first.

^ yeah that
Once I cut out all dairy sunnis poop was "normal"

John and I were struggling with the fm/hm imbalance as well. It was NO FUN! The symptoms were just what you described with the poops. I nursed on one side for 4+ hours. He is 3 weeks today and things seem to be balancing out. I hope they work out well for you!

everyone is clueless in the ped's office-we just got back from a weight check this morning.

sutt's gaining, but slower than average-so we're doing weigh ins once a week until he regains his birthweight and starts adding on 1/2 to 1oz a day. right now he's averaging 1/3oz a day.

i should add that OTHER than the green mucousy poops, he looks fantastic. no spitting up. no gas. no unconsolable crying-nothing out of the ordiniary, kwim?

just green mucous.

the lc wasn't there this morning, but i swear, she knows less than my 11yo dd when it comes to bf, so it prolly worked out that way, lol

she (tan) had a milk protien sensitivity to my milk so i had to go dairy free for almost 2 yrs until she could tolerate it in my diet, so i've got a little firsthand exp there. sutton just doesn't have the same kind of signs she had though.

as for spraying into a towel/diaper so he can get the hindmilk and less of the foremilk-my milk is gold in this house! i accidentally spilled out 2oz i pumped and i nearly had a nervous breakdown over it, lol wasting it is not an option, kwim? every little bit i have needs to go into him so he can grow-even a tiny squirt wasted is heartbreaking to me.

i'm wondering if this is a bfar issue-that i might not have as much hindmilk as i should/used to/need to have...but sadly, nobody has the answer on the bfar list i'm on-along with my useless ped and useless lc-grrrr.

Kas, is there another LC in your area? The one I saw at teh hospital was next to useless... and then told a friend she had an inverted nip and needed a shield -- and is wan't true!! But took her 6 mo to get teh babe off the shield. I've seen found a couple others in the area that are much better

I understand you don't want to waste any of your BM.....so if you don't do the towel method, you could do what the LC told me to do for my fm/hm imbalance--try to enrich the quality of your hm---by increasing your fatty acids and omega 3's.

Isabella gained very slowly too....in fact, 1 week she actually lost 6+ oz. I think if you just keep going, it will eventually work itself out or Sutton's body will adjust to it and that will become your normal, KWIM?

Isabella didn't have any spitting up either. She did have some nights with gas.....but nothing else out of the ordinary except for the funky poop!

Trust in yourself Kas--you know what you are doing. I know you are more concerned about the bfar-but I beleive you are doing everything you need to...and you know what to look for there too ;)

I know we have the same background lactation-wise (LLL) so I imagine you've probably thought of this, but going with the "supply/demand" thing, even if it is a BFAR issue don't you think you can balance that out too? Eventually? I'm thinking if you treat it like a fm/hm imbalance, eventually you'll make enough hm, did that make sense?

have you found Diana West's boards for BFAR? I had the wonderful opportunity to talk at length with her (she was our keynote guest this year in GA) in April as well as share a pitcher o'margarita (:thumbsup: ) and she is a FOUNTAIN of milk knowledge...the woman knows her stuff.

Maybe you can call her? Are you affiliated with LLL any longer? I know she wouldn't mind a sistah calling her. She's IBCLC as well.

I'm assuming you've gotten your hands (long ago) on Defining Your Own Success?

I've just scanned the other replies - so sorry if I repeat someone ;)

I would offer him the side with less milk first - there will be less foremilk too. And pump (so you can save it ;) ) the other breast before offering it to him - get the foremilk out of the way so that he gets the hindmilk. And after awhile, I think you would see an increase in both breast of milk - even if you do have to pump some off before he eats.

And I second the recommendations of more EFA's and Omega 3's.

efa's and omega 3's...where is this coming from, can someone point me in the direction of a study or whatnot?

if they truly do enrich milk, i'm running out to get them both TODAY.

yes, i belong to the bfar list and i know diana :) although the list is full of knowledge, every bfar experience is drastically different and i suppose because of that, i've yet to get any advice on the green poop...except for a couple mamas who answered that it's NOT dpd or fenugreek causing it.

ok-so i'm going to try to give the "bad" boob first at all nursings and then re-evaluate in 24hrs what my supply "feels" like.

fwiw-i started leaking 4 days ago and i nearly did a song and dance i was so freaking THRILLED :p

it's very strange having such a huge baby and then him being so little and slower to gain, kwim? i usually have BRUT bigguns, and people making fun of my fatty milk content, lol no more, huh?

Kas-I don't have any studies to point you in the direction of in regards to the fatty acids and omega 3--I did read it in a few articles, but I don't have them anymore-sorry!

However, 2 different LC's at 2 different hospitals gave me this advice since I had the fm/hm imbalance and she was gaining so slow.

Best of luck to you mama!

I pm'ed Nancy last week because of her thread regarding the same thing. Seems that we too have this same problem- and as long as I nurse Kaimakana 3+ hours on one side, his poop and his gas is in control. I told dh that I also need to avoid dairy for right now and am looking for alternatives for my favorite foods.

I'm interested in trying to correct the imbalance as well. I've never had this problem before with my other children, so I'm totally clueless.

Jessica- is there a daily required amount for both the efa's and omega's? Or should I just be increasing this slowly until I notice a difference with baby's nursing?

Kas, if you find anything out, can you post here again? Thanks!!!

Omega 3's and essential fatty acids can be found in fish oils and also in... shoot... can't remember the name of the oil now. It's a 'health food' oil... not evening primrose... someone help me here! FLAX SEED OIL - that's it.

If you are eating fish a couple of times a week, it should be the expected normal amount. You can increase it by either straight (gag) fish oil (like cod liver oil) or take oil capsules. Olive oil is a good oil, too, so use it for everything you cook.

i'm looking everywhere for the enriching part of the oils added to a bf mama's diet-but can only find where it 'enhances' the dha.


will look more...

Originally posted by CincoDeMama
i'm looking everywhere for the enriching part of the oils added to a bf mama's diet-but can only find where it 'enhances' the dha.


will look more...

That's all I've found too - though I KNOW I saw it somewhere!

Originally posted by CincoDeMama
OTHER than the green mucousy poops, he looks fantastic. no spitting up. no gas. no unconsolable crying-nothing out of the ordiniary, kwim?

just green mucous.

.

Kas I didn't read all the responses but wanted to say that this sounds like it is NOT a foremilk issue based on reading this. I'd say it's definitely dietary. Try an elimination diet.

Westy-if you take the supplements-take what is recommended on the bottle.
Cook with olive oils, eat more fish etc etc.

Kas-what I was told was that by doing this would increase the "good" fats that are in your milk - I will try to find some of the links I had. When my computer crashed a few months ago, I lost all my saved links :mad: but I can check on my numerous posts asking for help when bella was born to see if I listed any of the links when I was asking for input.

I figure, it can't hurt right?? It will only do you good! LOL

Oh yeah, kellymom does say that the good fats will be increased/changed by eating them in moms diet...but that it will not change the calorie count etc.

she also said that a more full breast=less fat content of milk going to baby and that a less full breast=higher fat content of milk going to baby.

I will keep looking too. I figure the documentation has to be out there somewhere or LC's wouldn't be saying it and more than one of us wouldn't have heard about it either.

I keep coming back to the mucousy poops too. My friend definately had a milk intolerance thng going - no other symptoms but green mucousy poops (we were discussing this at LLL today - one of hte babies had the green poops my friends ds had plus the rashes and spit up that Aislinn had - poor baby)

I would try to cut milk out for just a couple days. If that's it, it won't solve the problem that quickly, but you should notice some change in a couple days. 2 days of no milk and Aislinn stopped her screaming sprees at night, and not near as much spit up. # days of reduced milk and my friend saw closer to normal poops.

I don't know why I didn't think of the similarities earlier - especially since I was just discussing it today.

Just like the EFA (flax seed is a good one), it can't hurt to try - there won't be any adverse side effects.