Some of you know I have been having alot of problems with Lucas, nursing, thrush, me on meds, etc.

I have been feeding Lucas and then supplementing him whatever he needed, and he cries *all* the time it seems like, he nurses for close to a hour, and then he'll eat a ounce of formula, then he's up again in about 20 minutes, hungry again.

My husband just told me that he doesn't want me to breastfeed the baby any more .... that he thinks he's not getting enough, and it's just too much on all of us. :wah:

I am really upset with him, I mean, honestly, it's not HIS body, it's mine.... and MY body is the one who went through all the work for this baby. NOT him.

I know he should have a say in this, and I know we have been struggling, and I'm having lots of problems, but I should be the one to say when I'm done.

I don't know, this whole thing has been really hard on me, it has always been 1 problem after the other, and now this.

I have tried reasoning with him, but he is firm, and says no way.

Dh hardly ever tells me no about anything, and it's really wierd he's doing it this time... but when he says it, he always means it. And he's too stubborn to back down.

I am sooo upset about this... I know it might be for the best, as I have been bleeding from my nipples again, and my poor baby screams soo much.... but I think it's too soon to stop.

I'm sorry, I just had to vent, my mother is being no help as she agrees with Ben, as it's in the "best interest of my health, and the baby's"

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with bfing....I can totally relate to how difficult it is...my dd never was able to latch and I pumped for 5 months before my supply went too low and we had to switch over to formula and it broke my heart. But my dd is fine and smart as a whip....you do what you can. If you think you can keep trying, then keep trying and don't worry about what anyone else says. They can deal....you are the mother and YOU know what is best. But if you have exhausted your efforts and have tried everything you could but it is too much on you and on the baby, then just switch over. You know, you could make your own formula too, you don't have to use the canned store bought stuff. There are lots of recipes for all natural formula made with exceptional ingredients. I did it for a while, but then dd ended being allergic to some of the ingredients so we stopped. But she did like the homemade stuff as far taste and it kept her satisfied longer than the regular store bought formula. Just an idea...hang in there mama....you are doing a great job just by trying to consider what is best for baby AND for you. Get well...

I'm sorry he's not being more supportive Jodi - I do know how that feels as my dh has said many times through out my struggle to bf the twins that he would rather I wasn't. I've got support from him basically by costing formula - esp hypoallergenic times 2 babies. Our 2 year old has many allergies so if she hasn't been bf - would have had to have the hypoallergenic formula. So he has put up with this due to the cost. Though he even went so far to say with the last run of mastitis/thrush that he's *praying* that the twins will wean soon. :rolleyes: He also seems to think that I will magically get my pre-twins body and energy back as soon as I am not bf-ing. :eek:

Any chance he would be more o.k. with you double pumping and bottle-feeding? I know I would have been sunk without my double pump through all of this. When it was too painful to nurse - it was often easier and less painful to pump and then bottlefeed. Esp if you use olive oil to lubricate things. My pump paid for itself in the first month of use - for what formula would have cost. I have an Ameda Purely Yours. I do think it's your body and should be your choice though. My dh isn't really happy (other than the $ savings) about my bf-ing and all the stress with pumping, latch issues, thrush, mastitis, and plugged ducts - but no way would he try and say I couldn't bf'd. Though initially - he didn't want me to at all (with my 1st) but after the childbirth classes wanted me to for 6 weeks only for the immune benefits and then go to bottles - but then she wouldn't take bottles.

Hi Jodi,

Sounds like you are javing a pretty tough time and not getting enough support. In Australia, we have the Australian Breastfeeding Association and in nearly every shire there is a support group. They also have 24hour free phone support and counselling. Do you have anything like that near you.
I had a lot of problems feeding my dd and ended up pumping and feeding aswell as bf. I had thrush, cracked nipples, was told she wasn't getting enough etc etc. I wish I had known about support groups then.
If you can find a group or a lactation consultant, pp doula etc, they should be able to help with latching on, which should help with your supply and nipples.
Maybe you could explain to your dh that giving up feeding is not necessarily in the best interest for you. You seem very dedicated to bfing and if you stop because of your dh then it could really effect the way you feel about yourself and your baby. It could also mix up your hormones etc.
I really feel for you and I hope that everything will work out really soon. You and Lucas know what is best for you.
How old is he? Could it be his sucking reflex, not that he is necessarily hungry?
It is so great that you are putting in so much effort.:butterfly
Maybe you've already tried this, but I found the link to different LLL groups.
http://www.lalecheleague.org/WebUS.html (http://www.lalecheleague.org/WebUS.html)

Love Abby

Shilowe, where can I get recipes for natural formula?
We even tried to get natural/organic for him, but they only sell it for toddlers. :(

Cheryl, I have a mini electric and a medela double pump... but haven't tried pumped lately (as he was nursing all day anyway)
I'm hoping Ben will be more reasonable this morning.

And I don't want everyone to think he is agains bf'ing... he was very supportive the first few weeks, and the whole 15mths Adriana nursed.
He was even disappointed when she didn't nurse until at least 2.

Which is why this is sooo strange to me.

I'm hoping he is just a bit stressed over Lucas crying alot yesterday and will 'see the light' today.

I hate to give up bf'ing, but I also don't think I can go against my husbands wishes.
Especially since he rarely ever tells me not to do something.

Jodi, Sean used to do that too! It turned out that he was a really gassy babe, and had a tummy ache all the time, so he would want to keep eating all the time. Why he thought eating would help, I have no clue. LOL
Is Lucas a gassy babe? By you sig pic, he certainly doesn't look like he isn't thriving!
Man, that sucks when you don't have support from your spouse.

Abby, we do have a group similar to that.
Sadly our biggest issue now is supply, as we've tackled most of the others. (I'm on pills for supply)


Jody, he is gassy, but I don't think that's it... as with the formula he sleeps better, and doesn't cry hardly at all. Not to mention he is in a better mood all over.

To tell the truth, it kind of makes me feel like crap that he does so much better with it. :(

Not to state the obivious but have you cut out all dairy?
That made all the difference for us as far as fussiness.


I am so sorry you are going through this. It is so hard esp. when you are post pardum and have a wee babe to care for. I hope nursing gets easier for you! But please remember whatever you decide your baby will be fine :heart:

Originally posted by JodiM

I know he should have a say in this, and I know we have been struggling, and I'm having lots of problems, but I should be the one to say when I'm done.

I have tried reasoning with him, but he is firm, and says no way.
[/i]

i apologize if i seem blunt or curt in saying this..but those statements above just seem absurd to me. (what he said, not you saying what he said..lol)

WHY should your dh have a say in whether you BF or not? i mean, it IS your body & for pete's sake it is the BEST nutrition for your babe.

i just don't understand that at all. i have been following you story abit, so if i am misinformed , sorry.

why are you supplementing? how do you know that WHAT you are supplementing with isn't what is causing your babe to wake, etc.....could it be refulx probs that is waking him up?

i am SO sorry you are going thru this, i truly am. but under NO circumstances i wouldn't let my dh dictate to me how i fed my baby.

Well I think he thinks this is the easy solution. He sees you and the baby upset and just figures if he goes on a bottle it will make things easier for everyone.

Trouble is you don't know if that will stop him from fussing.

I'm sorry you are feeling so unsupported right now. Bf'ing is sometimes hard enough, then add no support and things can feel really tough.

Do you think that something you might be eating is making your little one gassy? I'm sure there is list somewhere of foods that can cause gassiness in babies ~ anyone know?

Do you think your dh would be happier if you pumped and fed ds from a bottle so you would know exactly how much he is getting, or maybe feed him a certain amount of breastmilk by bottle and then top him off with formula? Just some things that came to my mind. I really hope things get better for you, ds and dh.

Hi Jodi,

Was just about to go to bed ( it's almost midnight here) and I couldn't stop thinking about you. All of a sudden a thought came to mind, a supply line. Have you tried one? I hadn't even heard of them till I did my doula training.
It is a tiny tube attached to a bag or bottle. You can use expressed breastmilk, though that's hard with low suppli if that's the problem, or formula. You line it up with your nipple and while Lucas feeds he will get breastmilk and whatever is in the bag or bottle, while also stimulating your milk. It is a great tool for building up your supply and also keeping the closeness between you and Lucas. It may help your dh not to be so stressed about it and give your body a chance to relax and enjoy.
I have heard of lots of mamas of adopted babies using them, women that have not lactated before and they end up feeding, or partially feeding, their babies.

I too would check out the dairy thing, it's one of the most common "crying" problems I hear of.

I also agree with the fact that it is up to you, not your dh. There are a lot of things I would compromise on with dh, but not bfing. It is your body, your baby and the best for him.

Hope all works out.
many blessings
Abby

Jodi, maybe your dh is seeing how upset/stressed out you are about the whole thing and thinks formula feeding would make it easier on you. Not to excuse him, or to say that he is right, but maybe that's why he's feeling like that.

I'm sure you are working with a lactation consultant or something (and if not, please fine one! Mine helped me immensely!), but I just wanted to bring up one more issue it could be: When Rebecca was a month or so old she wasn't gaining weight well and was very gassy/pukey. I eliminated all dairy and it seemed to help some, but not a whole lot. At the advice of my LC, I started treating it as oversupply (oversupply of foremilk and not enough hindmilk). I fed her on one side per 2 or 3 hours...so if she ate at 8:00 and 10:00, it would only be on the left side, and then all feedings from 10:30 or so until 1:00 would be on the right. Within a week she was gaining weight again and the vomiting decreased greatly. Just a thought.

Good luck with this...I know it's so hard to make the decision to go to formula. I had to do it with my son after my supply went down...he did end up having some issues with it, and if I knew then what I know now....but that was 3 years ago, and he's fine now. :)

I hope it all works out for you.

Michelle

I'm really sorry that things are so hard for you now, and I hope you find the right solution for you.

I wonder if it might be useful for you and him to not only think about what will get your family some relief right now, but what will be best for you and the baby in the long run. Of course, when you look at it in the long run, there is no question that breast is best. Of course baby's comfort is important now, but building his immune system for a healthy future (including reducing his risk for disease like diabetes) is important as well. BFing is also the most important thing you can do to reduce ear infections in childhood, as well as colds and viruses. If he's a physically healthier infant that will reduce the stress on your family as well. If you put him on formula and then he starts to pick up all those colds your kids are bring home, you won't be getting much rest either. I think you have to weigh the positives and negatives right now, but also consider how those might play out 2 weeks from now, or 2 months from now, or 2 years from now.

When I look back on my nursing relationship (still ongoing with my 3 year old), there were so many times that I was so glad that I was nursing, including when I was on my first airplane trip and the plane was taking off, when he had a terrible GI bug as a 1 year old, when he had a bad cold last year, and when he and I spent 2 weeks this summer without his Dad.

HTH,
Karla

You're getting LOTS of support for continuing to breastfeed, and I think that's wonderful. I nursed my first son to 2 yrs, 9 months in spite of working full time from 3 months on -- I had a great pump. We also faced thrush - 3 times -- but never to the degree you did. We overcame a lot in the first few months -- but then things smoothed out and got a LOT better. He also was never a LONG sleeper, but he was a regular sleeper. So we had some stuff going for us.

Now I just want to offer the opposing experience and frankly I don't care if I get flamed off the board.

With the twins it was a whole 'nother ball of wax. Until you've had two children who are physcially miserable before and after every nursing session, who are SO hungry and then turn around and puke it all up -- I tried cutting out anything and everything and the only thing that made a difference was cutting out chocolate. But it didn't solve anything. They just didn't scream for quite as long. My sanity and that of my family's was toast. It was a horrendous strain on my marriage. It was my body, yes, but I was my husband's wife, those were HIS children puking and screaming and not sleeping, and that was HIS older child who wasn't getting the attention he deserved either.

He never said I should quit, but he urged me -- strongly -- to consider the alternatives.

In our case we knew the kids had a pretty evil case of reflux and Enfamil AR was designed to address that. I tried it for ONE day and the difference was amazing. I went back to nursing them the next day and the projectile vomitting and screams began all over again. It wasn't anything IN the milk -- it was its consistency. The formula was thicker, heavier. They threw it up, too, but in much smaller quantities.

And so I quit -- it was the most heart-wrenching decision I can ever recall making that first year. I was just devastated that I hadn't been able to provide for them in the same way I had for their older brother.

But jeez louise -- they slept, they smiled, they gained weight. I slept, I could read to my firstborn again because the twins weren't screaming, and I could dare to take the group out in public again -- key for us because my husband's job took him from home so much.

I didn't trust home-made formula although I did consider it. The protein to carb balance in breastmilk is really unusual and very hard to reproduce with natural ingredients. Your mileage may vary. I don't discourage you from investigating it. We did Enfamil AR until the boys were about 7 months old and their reflux began to get better. Then, after doing a lot of research, I switched them to ordinary Target formula. (Which is made by a company that has been around just as long as Enfamil and Similac) And again, they thrived.

It was our experience that they weren't sick any more than big brother. That was just our experience. Actually, big brother was sick much more often than the twins, but I attribute that entirely to his daycare experience. Ben and Milo were rarely sick until Max started first grade and began bringing home more germs. They weren't any sicker than Max was though (with the illnesses he brought home).

It *is* your body and you *do* have the final word, but parenting and marriage is a team sport and while that does NOT mean you have to quit here, if does mean noone can call you foolish for not taking his opinion into consideration.

But how stressful for you, mama. {{{{hugs}}}} This too shall ALL pass. Blessings upon your decision.

Alaska

DH is 100% supportive of BFing until they turn 1, then he got all whiny about shouldn't I just go ahead and wean and all this. It was a big switch in him. I REFUSED and he sucked it up.

I am sorry you are going through this. Are you eating a lot of yogurt and taking Acidopholous? They will help your thrush situation. It's hard hard hard to get rid of thrush once you have it. I hope you find a solution to the problems so that you don't have to stop BFing if you don't want to.

Hugs!

i don't know if i will be the voice of dissent on this or not, but it sounds like your dh really loves you and doesn't want to see you "suffer". it sounds like he just thinks that switching to formula will be better, but have you told him that you are not the only one to struggle? i mean, has he read up on some of the difficulties of bf'ing and some of the benefits??? i hope you two can come to a solution that is good for all of you, and remember, you are still an awesome mama even if this doesn't work out!!
heather

Horizon organics makes an organic infant formula. I/m not sure if its sold nationwide or just the OR,WA,CA. http://www.horizonorganic.com/products/indexinfform.html

HTh,Sharon

Originally posted by harvestgirl

WHY should your dh have a say in whether you BF or not? i mean, it IS your body & for pete's sake it is the BEST nutrition for your babe.

why are you supplementing? how do you know that WHAT you are supplementing with isn't what is causing your babe to wake, etc.....could it be refulx probs that is waking him up?

i am SO sorry you are going thru this, i truly am. but under NO circumstances i wouldn't let my dh dictate to me how i fed my baby.

Nicole, I have to supplement because I had to stop bf'ing for almost 2 weeks, and my supply dropped grossly. My baby is not getting anywhere near enough with just my milk, so I am giving him a bit of a supplement to make sure he's getting enough.

Lucas doesn't have reflux, but he does have some gas/colic problems.

Also, I understand that you might not let your husband dictate to you to how to feed your baby.
I would never let my husband *dictate* how I do things either.

But I feel that my husband and I are equals, and Lucas is also his son. I have to respect his wishes/decisions, just as I want him to respect mine.... and since my husband hardly ever denies me anything, or tells me no, so when he does, I have to respect that.

Thanks Heather, I know he's doing it because he feels it's what is for the best... which is why it's hard for me to be mad at him.

I tried talking to him a bit this morning, and told him it's really normal for people to have problems starting out, etc... he told me if I wanted to pump for the next few days/week, and can get out the same amount Lucas is eating out of a bottle at feeding time, then I can go back to nursing him.

I just pumped and got out 3.5oz, and he's eating right at 4.5 now, so hopefully by Wed/Thur I can do it myself. (I HOPE!)

Sharon, thanks for the link, I'll check that out now.

:hug: Jodi I am so sorry you're going through all this!!!

I totally, totally, totally understand about the situation with your DH. They want to try to help us do what they feel is best, sometimes they just don't realize how terribly important something (like breastfeeding) can be to us, kwim? BTDT really recently. ((((hugs)))) You are welcome to PM me anytime to chat about it or vent. I know it's not easy.

I'm so glad you were able to talk to him!! When DH & I had that huge disagreement over it before Rachel was born, the mamas here gave me a lot of good ideas, and a lot to think about, and when I finally was able to sit down and talk to him about it, we worked things out. She's here, she's nursing, and he's about 99% supportive. *lol*

I was going to suggest pumping, too. ;) Already looks like you got that worked out though. :D

My two cents, just fwiw... My first ds was just something else. My DH did the same thing. He was insistant I quit nursing because I had so much trouble - bleeding nipples, constant pain, the baby was SOOOO fussy... turned out the nipple issues were solveable (inverted nipples and they were really flat too) and the fussiness went away almost completely when I cut dairy - ALL dairy. To this day, AJ cannot have milk, pizza (cheese), etc or he gets horrible stomach aches - he's just allergic to it. :(

With #2 I knew that so I avoided dairy when he was little.

With Rachel, DH & I switched to a mostly raw foods vegan diet about a week or two before she was born. She has been the most content baby I've ever been around! It is amazing. Of course, stupid me, three days ago I started eating chocolate and also had a piece of cheese one day, along with mcdonalds fries one day... ugh... we spent three nights with her gassy, fussy, and crying her poor little eyes out. NO MORE for me. I don't care what I have to cut out of my diet, kwim? I'll do it. :)

Anyway, it might be something crazy that he's sensitive to? Coffee? Soda ingredients? Dairy? Chocolate? Meat? Broccoli or cauliflower? Beans? Soy products (if I eat too much soy she gets a tummy ache, also discovered that)? There are a lot of possibilities and maybe it's something simple like that?

For supply - do you need any mother's milk tea? I have some I'd be happy to share. :)

Mostly I just wanted to post (((hugs))) and say I'm thinking of you and your DH today and the little guy and sending you ~*~*more milk*~*~ vibes! ;)

HUGS...

Have you called your local la leche league yet?

Does your DH realize (it doesn't sound like he does) that a baby on bm does not take the same amount as a baby on formula, by ounce? They don't get the same number of ounces. Also, no pump will be able to get out ALL the milk. In fact, amount pumped is NOT indicative of supply at all. A woman with a perfect supply can be unable to pump so much as an ounce!

While it sounds like you both are acting out of concern for the babe, and while I completely respect his stance, I'm just concerned that his expectations & "requirements" for you to meet are not based on anything scientifically proven.

Please call LLL. Please.

www.lalecheleague.org

If the first Leader you get doesn't help, call another. And another. If I were closer I'd have you call me. I agree with the above poster about the SNS (tube/bag) if you must use formula. That way you are receiving the stimulation (helping you make MORE milk) while he gets his supplement. Otherwise every ounce he takes of formula from a bottle is that much more that you will not be making. It's a vicious cycle and in order to break it you may need to seek help. I don't recall but are you on meds to up your supply? Domperidone is very effective and fast. Fenugreek and blessed thistle are two very effective and easily obtained herbs to help with increased lactation.

I have been watching this thread with trepidation, trying to decide whether to step in, but when I read that about the ounces....I had to say something. That is NO indication of you ability to nurse him, either way. He will not need as many ounces of your milk as he would formula. Period.

Ugh. Please respond if you have any questions...

Originally posted by PoetMom
With the twins it was a whole 'nother ball of wax. Until you've had two children who are physcially miserable before and after every nursing session, who are SO hungry and then turn around and puke it all up -- I tried cutting out anything and everything and the only thing that made a difference was cutting out chocolate. But it didn't solve anything. They just didn't scream for quite as long. My sanity and that of my family's was toast. It was a horrendous strain on my marriage. It was my body, yes, but I was my husband's wife, those were HIS children puking and screaming and not sleeping, and that was HIS older child who wasn't getting the attention he deserved either.

He never said I should quit, but he urged me -- strongly -- to consider the alternatives.

In our case we knew the kids had a pretty evil case of reflux and Enfamil AR was designed to address that.

Hi - not flaming - just wanted do point out that I DO have twins, who DID have pretty bad reflux and colic (still on medications for reflux) AND I have older children and a DH whos not around a lot. So I do know what you are talking about as I have btdt and almost quit bf-ing so many times as many on here know - so I don't judge anyone for quitting. However - for ME - I am glad I have struggled through all of that and keep struggling through it. One thing that helped my babies was reflux medicaiton. I would try that before going to thickened formula.

Jodi - this wanting to eat 20 min later sounds like reflux to me. Basically they have acid/heartburn after eating and want to nurse more to soothe the burning. My twins have this and do this if they are not on prescription medication for reflux. Formula is a bit better as it's heavier - but we found that just having the girls on medication helped.

Also keeping them mostly upright (in bouncy seats/swings for sleep or sitting them upright in our laps for 1 hour after eating helped with the screaming a lot. I didn't used to be able to nurse lying down either - not with Megan until around 4 months and Maribeth almost 6 months. The girls couldn't sleep with me either - after nursing they had to be put into the bouncy or swing to sleep for several months until the reflux improved.

So maybe check on a trial of reflux meds. My girls are on Zantac - but there are several others if Zantac doesn't work. You can also get stuff to thicken EBM (they did this for my girls in the nursery but I can't remember what it's called. Some moms on twinstuff mix a tiny bit of rice cereal into the EBM to thicken it. I started my girls on rice cereal mixed with EBM at night much earlier than I would have and that helped a lot. I would try meds and upright during after feedings before rice cereal with a very young baby.

Also - pump. It's been my fall back everytime dh gets frustrated is for me to pump - which doens't hurt as much and then he can help feed the baby and it feels to him like he is doing something to help. Then you know how much baby is getting AND you can try mixing some EBM in with the formula so he's getting some of both.

Also if dairy didn't help - try putting dairy back in and taking out soy. One of my twins is bothered by soy and Maddy is very allergic to soy.

Get some mother's milk tea or fenugreek and start taking it and drink lots and lots of water and then drink some more water! Those will help you get your supply up.

For a gassy baby I would really try to cut out dairy that can make a world of difference.

I didn't read all the responses but hopefully these things will help.

Try to remember that you are both figuring out how to do this (bf'ing) and it isn't always easy. Just hang in there and things usually get better around 6 weeks for you and the baby.

I'm agreeing wtih dairy--I know that Anders gets reflux, along with gassy/colicky, vomiting, etc when I have dairy. WE have a long list--dairy, soy, corn, wheat, eggs, nuts, tomatoes, beans--that I have to avoid. If I eat any, I know it. It's worth a try, at least, that's how I felt. It wasn't that hard to cut it all out, and the difference it made was incredible. If it hadn't worked, well--no big deal, I would have just started to eat it again.

I know it's a huge amount of stress to be under right now. (((Hugs)))

Originally posted by JodiM
Shilowe, where can I get recipes for natural formula?
We even tried to get natural/organic for him, but they only sell it for toddlers. :(


Jodi, please someone correct me if I'm wrong, I think that the organic is OK for babies. I bought some to have around the house when I went back to work in case DH ran out of breasmilk while I was at work (I was a horrible pumper). Anyway, as I recall, it passes the same standards that other baby formula passes, they just put that disclaimer on the can to be PC. You know, breastmilk is best for the first year of life, this formula should be used for ages one and up only, or whatever, it says. I think it is just written like that so they don't appear to be formula pushing. I would look into it a bit further before concluding you can't use it. At the time, the stuff at wild oats, I forget the name of the brand, was deemed OK for my baby by my dr, but they don't know everything. At the time I figured if he was wrong it wouldn't matter since it was only used in an emergency when my EBM ran out, but I do really think it is OK. I would look into it, further than the disclaimer on the can.

I am interested in the recipies too though, can someone post a link?

Edited because I found a link for Horizon Infant Formula (http://www.store.yahoo.com/nurturecenter/hoorinfowiir.html)

And this was on the website for Baby Organic, they sell seperate DHA and ARA to add to it:
Breast milk is absolutely the best source of nutrition for infants and toddlers, but if you are unable to breast feed your baby, provide the best alternative available - Baby’s Only Organic Toddler Formula™. Baby’s Only Organic™ is the only organic baby formula manufactured in the U.S. Ingredients are natural and pure, and are not genetically modified or grown with synthetic pesticides or chemical fertilizers. Baby’s Only Organic™ is nutritionally comparable to other popular infant formulas and toddler formulas, and meets the nutritional requirements of the U.S. law called the Infant Formula Act.

Originally posted by JodiM

I have been feeding Lucas and then supplementing him whatever he needed, and he cries *all* the time it seems like, he nurses for close to a hour, and then he'll eat a ounce of formula, then he's up again in about 20 minutes, hungry again.

that he thinks he's not getting enough, and it's just too much on all of us



I know it might be for the best, as I have been bleeding from my nipples again, and my poor baby screams soo much.... but I think it's too soon to stop.

I'm sorry, I just had to vent, my mother is being no help as she agrees with Ben, as it's in the "best interest of my health, and the baby's"

without reading the other replies, as i'm pressed for time -- but your description of lucas sounds like both my boys in the first several months. tucker had reflux and had thrush numerous times. griffin just nurses nonstop. both boys would nurse for an hour and then take a 15 minute break and start over. it's normal for some kids. i don't know any differently since that's what both my kids did. griffin is one now and a perfect example is that he nursed yesterday for 2.5 hours straight. no kidding --- whenever i tried to take my nipple out of his mouth he screamed. :rolleyes:

the constant screaming would indicate pain or discomfort. have you considered reflux? it's worth a trip to the ped for a rx of zantac i'd say. the hyland's colic tablets are good too.

the "not getting enough" statement --- is lucas gaining weight? does he have 6 wet diapers a day? if the answer is "yes" -- then he's getting enough. enough said. if you are supplementing then your supply could well go down, but if he is only taking one ounce after nursing, then you are definitely producing enough. quit supplementing and just let him nurse as often and for as long as he wants.

what's in the best interest of the baby? well, i think we all know that. even pharmaceutical companies that manufacture lab created "milk" substitutes will say that breast milk is best. emotionally, physiologically --- breast is superior to bottle.

about your dh -- i'm just biting my tongue ;) if my dh told me to feed my kids something less than superior then i'd go thru the roof. especially if isdt involves my children and my body. does he have say in it? hmmm, not sure. i mean, my dh was initially weirded out about bf'ing altogether. we have a wonderful christian marriage and i actually believe wholeheartedly in submission to him as the head of our home, but when i became pg w/ tucker, i didn't ask for his opinion. my body was made to nourish a child and that's what it would do. he suggsted a few times in the past year that i should begin to wean tucker (3) but he has never insisted or been bullheaded about it. if he told me i "had" to wean, i'd be in shock. he knows the benefits of bf'ing and he knows that it's more than a physiological nutritional thing.
bottom line....you gotta do what's best for your kids. breastmilk is, hands down, best.

If you are supplementing, that is signaling your breasts not to make as much milk. More time spent at the breast= more milk they make, the law of supply and demand.
Please don't give up Jodi. Contact your local LLL they can help with any breastfeeding issue. I don't understand why your dh doesn't want his baby to have the very best? :confused:
and it's free!!

Everyone gave you really good advise so far. My only 2cents is to not supplement with a bottle. Give him the milk with a spoon, eye dropper or even an open topped cup. While supplementing with milk isn't the greatest for your supply, supplementing with a bottle, while you are already having trouble, will reek havoc on your baby's latch.

Sounds like you need a lactation consultant who is familiar with suck training. If there isn't one near you, pm me, I can describle the basics if you intrested.

Originally posted by girlfactory
If you are supplementing, that is signaling your breasts not to make as much milk. More time spent at the breast= more milk they make, the law of supply and demand.
Please don't give up Jodi. Contact your local LLL they can help with any breastfeeding issue. I don't understand why your dh doesn't want his baby to have the very best? :confused:
and it's free!!

:ditto:

i just don't get why people think that they need to supplment.to me, it is obvioius that due to the supply & demand of BFing.. by supplementing, a mama is hindering that natural process.:confused:

let him nurse more,don't supplement & your supply will keep on keepin' on.

ita w/ the suggestions of a LC ,or your local LLL

re: your dh telling you what to do w/ your own body ~ it really bumms me out that a woman/mama would deny her baby the best just b/c her dh told her to. :(

I want to bump this and also emphasize (though others have mentioned it already)

SNS

I have a SNS, and we can't get it to work right. (Actually what I have was given to us at the hospital- and it's a feeding tube and a syringe)

I have tried a medicine dropper (the kind you buy at the pharmacy) for supplementing.

and now when I pump, I am getting less, only about 2oz.

I feel like a total friggin failure. I knew that if I could pump a bit more dh would just shut up about it.... and when he's at work, well, he's not here, so baby and I can do whatever.

Why is this soo hard? I have already nursed 4 other kids.

:wah: :wah: :wah: :wah: :wah:

Jodi ~ believe me, I understand!!! It was hard nursing the twins at the beginning and I had to take domperidone, fenugreek, and other herbs to finally boost my milk supply. It was a difficult battle ~ the lactation consultant said that a lot of mamas have problems with milk supplies even if it's their 8th, 9th, 10th, etc. kids... hang in there!

:hug:

Can someone tell me about domperidone?

Is it effective? Is it safe for baby?

Don't give up. You can do this. Your baby is really little and it takes time. Just keep trying. I know that it is hard to pump and get so little. You really need to nurse the baby and then pump. This will help your supply issue. I also found it easier to pump after I nursed even if you don't get as much out. You are tired and emotional and a fussy baby will drain anyone.

I found that if I took fenugreek 3 times a day(total of 6 caps a day) with a large glass of water with meals that my supply increased in just a couple of days. I never could stand the taste of the tea but the other I could do.

HUGS

Most formulas are milk based as well, so imo unless he is only responding favoribly to an allergy formula ($$$), then breast milk is still best. If he responds better to soy formula, I'd cut out dairy in my diet. If he responds well to milk based formula, it may be something else you are eating. Could be dairy, but less likely imo. An elimination diet would help, I believe Dr. Sears has one online for Mamas to go on. I'd also remember that his positive periods may seem to be from formula, but could it be just his positive times seem to coincide when you have given it and it's not necessarily due to the formula? I'd also try Mylicon drops with him....it was all that worked for my colicky baby. I was told to get her on soy, and I did, and pumped. She did better on soy, or so it seemed....for about 3 days. Then back to "normal", colic. I went back to nursing as often as she would, and used the drops....it was hard, but within a month, typical colic, she was fine.

are fine to use while nursing. They increase your supply and are regularly prescribed as a galactogogue.

Please remember: What you pump is NOT indicative of your supply.

What you have is a syringe supplementer, not an SNS. And SNS will be a bag that you wear around your neck on a cord (or tape to you) with a tube that goes into baby's mouth as he nurses. Idealy, he gets both milks...and you get the stim you need to MAKE MORE...which you will not if he's on a bottle.

Have you called LLL?

Originally posted by JodiM
Can someone tell me about domperidone?

Is it effective? Is it safe for baby?

Check here:

Kelly's Site for Breastfeeding (http://www.kellymom.com/newman/domperidone2_01-03.html)

DPD and Baby (http://babyparenting.about.com/b/a/2004_04_11.htm)

HTH!

Yes I've talked to the LLL here, but we're in a small town, and our LLL is not very good. (I think I know more than her, which is sad)

I even called the one where the university is, about a hour from here, and she helped me a bit... but not a whole lot.

Would you feel comfortable pm'ing me your area? State, etc...

I may be able to find you a Professional Liason Leader in your area. Maybe.

I'm sorry to hear your LLL isn't so helpful. Perhaps she's new but that shouldn't matter.

I'd come sit down with you if I was there, but I'm not. Not all Leaders do home visits. Help is hard via the internet too.

If I knew where you were I may be able to find you someone more knowledgable.

Take mamaxt up on the SNS. it's worth it.

the SNS :) YEAH! I'll throw in some Mother's Milk tea for you, and if I have some I'll give her some Blessed Thistle for you too.

I've got a ton of this stuff here...she'll come get the tea before she ships to you. It's not the most flavorful stuff but if you add some honey it's fine (I drink it plain but not everyone likes it that way).

Tracey, I have the tea (thanks though!) and I'm on blessed thistle and fenugreek (3-3xday each of them- I'm starting to feel like a druggie LOL)

Thanks for the offer though!

I'm thinking about buying some domperidone too, just waiting to see if it can be taken with my kidney problem.

You are all so awesome~:heart:

There are several recipes, I will list as many as I remember
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html

I remember we used
Goat's milk
molasses (for sweetner and added iron)
Liquid mulit-vitamin (I got from SIL's Mom--she is an herbologist)
Cod liver oil or Flax seed oil

I think that's all I used

She wouldn't take it at first so I slowly replaced regular formula with this. I would add an ounce a day until we were completely over to the homemade formula. I later discovered I was using too much of the oil and molasses, so if you do decide to try this, go easy on those two. You can make up a batch of it or a bottle at a time. I usually made a batch of it and warmed up a bottle at a time...I would warm it in a sauce pan cuz it was quicker and then put it in the bottle. I hope things work out for you to continue bfing but if not you can try this. Good luck mama...

DEFINING YOUR OWN SUCCESS by Diana West has a great section on galactogogues. It's primarily aimed at nursing moms post-reduction surgery but it is FABULOUS for offering suggestions on raising your milk supply. I met her this year at our conference here in GA.

Do you take any allergy meds (sudafed, benedryl)? What about peppermint oil (altoids)? They all adversely impact your supply. I'll think if I can come up with more for you...

HUGS Mama! I haven't read all the replies but wanted to LYK that I'm praying things will get better for you and your little one. I agree that this is a relationship between you and your baby- and nursing goes far beyond just feeding. I'm sure you know that! ;) I'd keep searching LLL's and calling different leaders until you get one that's helpful. I have only gone to a couple LLL meetings and KWYM about unhelpful leaders/members because the one I went to really didn't give me much help/support, but I also know there are some great women out there who will dedicate their time to helping you (even if it's only over the phone). I would really tell your dh that it's something that's VERY VERY important to you and show him articles and much more about the importance in BF'ing especially a little one. I know how easy it is to get influenced by other family members but what you really need to stress is that this particular subject is something that is in your and your child's best interest. And you as a mama know what's right for you both. I'm certainly not telling you what that is- I'm just telling you that in your heart you probably know what you should do for your sweet baby. And that you as a knowledgable woman will do what's right for your baby. And you need to make sure you won't do something that you regret. If you stop breastfeeding early before YOU and your little one are ready that decison will most likely effect your heart more than your dh's- since it really is a bond between mama and babe.
I support whatever decision you make but I just want you to be comfortable about your decision. HUGS mama. Good luck in talking with dh. I'm very thankful that my dh "lets me" mother as I choose because he can be very stubborn (bullheaded!) in decisions he makes= meaning when he puts his foot down that's that! But as far as parenting/mothering he's very open minded and listens to me on that topic (non vaxing, extended bf'ing, ap'ing in general)- anyway... if he can be flexible in that area just about anyone can! LOL So, I guess I'm saying work on dh if you disagree with him!
Good luck mama!!!
PS- reading a few replies--- ITA about supplementing--- it will set you up for failure--- bottles, supplementing, formula--- it is all setting a bf'ing mama on the path to formula. Just wanted to add my opinion on that.

not a big deal :) Just offering it up if you needed it!

Also, I realy don't want to step on anyone's toes here and I totally respect the choices made by any mama for her babe...so I want to preface what I'm about to say with that and say that I am not putting this out there in judgement of anyone-I'm glad it seemed to work well for some mamas.

Please read well and be informed before you choose to "make your own infant formula". Probably because of my lactation training I am VERY leary of those type of recipes. When analyzed scientifically none provide well for baby the way that mom's milk or formula can. Yes, some formulae contain soy or dairy but the pre-digested ones are well-tolerated for most babies. I have to say that I'd much *MUCH* rather see a baby on ABM than on a homemade formula. Contact me off-list if you wish for back-up documentation but it just isn't sound to go that route, for so many reasons. Yes, I know plenty of mamas who are so against ABM that they would prefer that route and some of them have babes who thrive...but it really isn't good for the babe, in general.

Again, not stepping on toes here so please don't flame me, I've been in this field for many years now & could type a novel about this but find the internet awkward for help-situations :) I'm glad it worked for some of you, but I am very nervous to see it offered as an option here for this mama since it can so adversely affect the baby (yes, I know ABM can as well, I rarely ever recommend it but in this case I would hands-down recommend it to a home-made formula).

The WHO (world health organization) lists formula (ABM) as the 4th preferred infant feeding method: "Underscoring just how important breastmilk is is a new statement from the
World Health Organization, listing formula as the fourth choice of infant
feeding methods, following, in order, a mother breastfeeding her own baby,
another woman wet-nursing the baby, and feeding human breastmilk acquired
from a milk bank."

http://www.breastfeeding.com/advocacy/advocacy_real_thing.html

It doesn't list home-made formula as an alternative of choice...