Just curious? I feel a bit hurt.:( But, I think, why should I really care? They obviously don't.

if it is trademarked or Registered.

And YES I would be hurt. Was it a biz idea or an actual product that you came up with and sell?

I never copyrighted it. Many told me to do it. It was a product I came up with. This is the second time I have seen it copied. I confronted the first person. It was very obvious. Someone even admitted to sending her the product she copied. This all makes me shakey and upset. I hate confrontation. I'm not even really making them right now, since I am running another business, but I am planning to sell my business, and make it harder when the product is all over the place.:rolleyes:

I just looked on your site at the products that you make and they are all things I have seen elsewhere before or made myself. (not saying your stuff isn't really nice because it looks great!) Cinch bags sling bags, wet sacks changing pads have all been around. I have seen patterns for them in every pattern catalogue I've looked at in the last couple of years. I've made some of these things in my life and I didn't get the idea from your items.

The potpourrie globes were huge here a few years ago.

IOW I don't see anything that seems copyrightable to me. Maybe I missed something though.:confused:

I'm sorry some one seemingly ripped you off and made you feel bad. I think that if you have great products someone is bound to copy. I hope it doen't mess up the potential sale of you business because you do have a great line up of products.Good luck!

I just wanted to add that I am sort of in the realm of WAHM because I do sew thing to sell occasionally. SOmethings are out of my head and somethings I have seen somewhere and made up my own version. Didn't want you to think I'm being smart aleky at all.

It's funny, when I started sewing years back, there really weren't any wet bags around. I just made them how I wanted my own to be. Since then, there are tons! That's not what I am talking about. The item I am refereing to came from my head years ago. The reason I made it was because there was nothing around like it. Just recently I have seen knockoffs. Hey, maybe, a big pattern company copied me!:p Wouldn't that be cool!! Just kidding!

I've gotten over it. I would just never do it, knowingly, to another WAHM. That's what hurts a bit. But hey, maybe they were copying a copy of a copy of mine. Ya never know.:)

I'm curious to know what the item was. I make up a lot of things from my head too. Then, after making them I started seeing them elsewhere. So, I know exactly how you feel.

I had someone copy a diaper that I make down to the color of thread, and another person copied another diaper I make down to the style of the soaker, thread, everything. It's irritating, but there'es enough business to go around, IMHO. :)

Jessica

What is the item you are referring to?

Sue

True, it could be illegal if TM or copyrighted.

Depends on the item too.....I mean, when I was selling pads 9 years ago there were very few WAHM's doing it so my design was a bit unique.....now there are so many who do pads and you can only vary the style/design so much, KWIM? (same with diapers)

So, are you *sure* they are copying your design? (or is it one of those things that there are not many variations on so it may look like a copy but is not?)

I suppose the answer to that question would determine how hurt and upset I'd be, KWIM?

I am sorry you are feeling miffed. :rub:

Michelle

OT, but are you the mama who did the flexi 8 (hair clip) co-op a while ago?

If so, are you going to do another one anytime?

If so, I need to start saving up for some more. Those clips are the BEST and only ones that really hold up all my hair.

Hugs,
Michelle

Unfortunately, it's been done over and over again. Recently, I saw a post on MDC where someone said they were buying a diaper just to make sure how to copy it for themselves (they didn't say they were for sale, but you know how that is - mama's say they have no intention of going into boz, and tomorrow there's spam somewhere that they got a serger and are whipping them out). I've had several things copied, and I know SO many WAHMs who have been copied. Myself, when I KNOW someone copied, I refuse to buy from them.

Yes I would be hurt and angry & yelling & venting at everyone who would listen.

I had this happen with a dress I made, dyed & designed. Sold one to a *friend* who then made the e-x-a-c-t same dress & sold it on her web site. Down to the colors even. The only way she couldn't copy the design on the front was because she isn't as talented as I am and didn't know how I had transfered the image. I think if she had, she would have copied it 100%.

Ohh, it's been a few months and it still makes me SO angry!

Chole

Originally posted by MyChild'sGarden
there's spam somewhere that they got a serger and are whipping them out.

That is almost word for word from my SPAM for mama cloth that I posted today. *lol*

Michelle

I often wonder if we spur on creativity in each other.

In the soap making world, it happens.
I try to be so careful not to copy someone, but sometimes some of us make the same things.

Just last week I thought"Hey, I am gonna make a lavender vanilla soap" then it hit me that my buddy Eve Mary makes it and it sounded so good it went in my memory bank somewhere.
When I thought about making it, I remembered that it was her soap that gave me the idea.
So I didn't make it.

I may make it sometime and enjoy it or sell to locals, but I would not sell it here, because I would not want to compete against her like that with her own idea.

Does that make sense?

I hope this will encourage you-
that your product or idea must be really great if someone would actually copy it.

I'd be interested in hearing what the product is as well. I have an inkling, but I'll keep it to myself until you say for sure. :p

Originally posted by organicmama
I often wonder if we spur on creativity in each other.

In the soap making world, it happens.
I try to be so careful not to copy someone, but sometimes some of us make the same things.

Just last week I thought"Hey, I am gonna make a lavender vanilla soap" then it hit me that my buddy Eve Mary makes it and it sounded so good it went in my memory bank somewhere.
When I thought about making it, I remembered that it was her soap that gave me the idea.
So I didn't make it.

I may make it sometime and enjoy it or sell to locals, but I would not sell it here, because I would not want to compete against her like that with her own idea.

Does that make sense?

I hope this will encourage you-
that your product or idea must be really great if someone would actually copy it.

funny you should mention that. there are certain things i won't make because of other soapers here. apricot freesia and body sprays are off-limits to me because of tami. lavender vanilla is a no-no because of eve-mary. citrus exfoliating soap is off limits because of you. i think the soapers here do a good job of respecting each other's boundaries. i have even had local friends tell me i really need to add to my site that we are vegetarian but i feel like it would step on tami's toes since it is in her tag line.

but yes, i have been copied on original products and ideas and it just plain sucks.

Originally posted by danica
i think the soapers here do a good job of respecting each other's boundaries. [/B]

You know what Danica - you hit the nail on the head. Respect.

Originally posted by MyChild'sGarden
You know what Danica - you hit the nail on the head. Respect.

Well, we already knew how well the soapers played together. :p

When I first came here, there were not any other patchwork or playsilk mamas here.
(That I knew of anyway! :)

There were a few times I was really hurt when customers bought something then 'copied' it and opened a website.
Oh, and when I first saw another site selling elemental play silks, I was so crushed.
But, I realized the elements are a pretty universal theme in life, and I am ok now. :)

What is the product in concern?

Someone even admitted to sending her the product she copied
That would make me very upset.

Hope

I had a somehwat similar situation here too. I was selling holiday teething dolls. They were similar to a lot of other teething dolls, but I some one placed a large order with me and then came back the next day and said she found another amity mama to "copy" my doll for a $1 less. That really bothered me. For one thing, if someone asked me to copy another amity mama, I never would! It also bothered me that she backed out of the large order. :mad:

But I think that items being similar to each otehr is inevitable. How many ways can you make a dipe or a teething doll or sling?

I hope things get better soon.

yeah, it's a kinda blurry line. Why, just last year I posted a sew n show of my towel bags and soon there after you began to sell them on your site. It's funny how people may or may not be offended at copy cats.

is it ok to copy if there is no copyright? is it ok if it's just a fellow mama? or is it just the TM stuff that is supposed to be hands off and the rest is a kind of survival of the fittest/most popular?

Originally posted by LifesaBeach
is it ok to copy if there is no copyright? is it ok if it's just a fellow mama? or is it just the TM stuff that is supposed to be hands off and the rest is a kind of survival of the fittest/most popular?

imo, the tm doesn't matter in a moral/ethical sense, only in the legal sense. just because a person can get away with something legally doesn't make it right, kwim?

what really hurts my feelings though is when people say "hey, can you copy xyz but make it cheaper than the mama that came up with the idea?"

It depends on certain factors.

We see the wahm world as big.. so many talented wahms creating a medley of wonderful products. But in the big scheme of things.. they represent a very small part of on-line businesses. Because they are relatively small it gets more tricky when they have similar or matching items.. whether they were copied or not. A lot of us do the majority of our gift buying from wahms who are members here... so when one wahm begins creating and marketing an item similar or exact to another wahm.. it looks very much like they have "copied" the others work. Where as, for me at least, it wouldn't seem so if the wahm was not amongst us and really had no ties to the wahms that we all know and love. Does this make any sense?

It seems rather unfair to some wahms. It shouldn't be wrong for a wahm to sell a certain type of soap on her site simply because someone else does. I understand and appreciate the respect factor but it wouldn't be an issue if 2 fellow wahms each had a brick and mortar 1000 miles apart and sold the exact same items. The line is blurry because, in our eyes, the businesses here at amity's are right next door to each other.

My weefolk are more or less a copy of someone elses work. I felt a little uncomfortable about selling them at first and wanted to make sure that doing so was legal as well as ethical. There are only a few wahms that sell similar dolls.. but none that have the detail that I put into mine. Sally Mavor sells them on her site for twice the price. I just don't see the few dolls I have time to make as being any competition to her. I would never open up a biz right next door to her's.. or even on the same street.. and market a copy of her work. I don't think that would be right. But I do feel perfectly free to sell them on-line when I have the time to make them.

There are a few ladies in the city that bought my lanterns from the antique shop (when I use to wholesale) to copy them. There are a few craft booths in the city that have exact copies of my designs. Carol (the shop owner) said that women even brought cameras in the shop to take pictures of my lanterns. I don't mind simply because it ain't nearly as easy as it looks! :D My first tealight lantern took me 2.5 hours to make. My hand was so stiff and sore the next morning that I couldn't gripe my toothbrush :eek: I am tenacious to say the least and wasn't about to let the wire defeat me! :) If I were selling them in a shop or had my own B&M in town .. and someone moved in next door selling copies of my work.. then I wouldn't have hurt feelings. I would probably be too busy plotting a way to destroy them :halo: But as long as I don't feel any close competition then all is fine and I'll wish them well.

I did have one mama here.. can't even remember how she was now.. that contacted me last year about my lanterns. She pretended to be very interested in buying quite a few. Being eager to sell them I answered all of her 400 questions.. about the wire I used, the tools I used, the beads, the glassware yada yada yada. She wanted close up pics of them, wanted to know where I bought the beads. Yeah.. it was a little odd... but I just thought she was more picky that I am (*GASP*) :) and, like me, a detail kinda gal. I took a lot of time to help her pic the right lanterns (she was needing them for a party or something.. can't remember) She had me thinking she was going to be spending big bucks. Yeah! Then I never heard from her again. She wouldn't answer the 2 emails I sent and I later discovered from someone else that she was only after information so she could make her own. Don't get me wrong. I would gladly explain to someone else how to make them. But don't lie to me and take hours of my time away from my family and *paying* customers because you want a personal, indepth crash course on wire crafting 101 :rolleyes Yeah I was slightly perturbed over that

I think I've said a whole lot of somethin' and absolutely nothin' at the same time :)

LOL Sherrie. Got my light today, it marvelous.

I've been copied so much I just don't care anymore. I've found the copying wahms usually come and go so fast, it doesn't matter anyway. I've even had people buy the product and cut it apart to trace it :rolleyes: Whatever.

Originally posted by arasmama
I've been copied so much I just don't care anymore. I've found the copying wahms usually come and go so fast, it doesn't matter anyway. I've even had people buy the product and cut it apart to trace it :rolleyes: Whatever.

That makes for an expensive pattern...lol.

I get a lot of ideas from what I see in catalogs & magazines, as well as at stores. I do draft my own patterns usually. For some things, there are only so many ways to make it.

S~

I am lol here at the length of my post .. Man I haven't done that in a while :)

Thanks Allison. I put your wire hook in an envelope today and put it in the box. meant to do it yesterday. It's a gamble these days if I remember anything unless I write it down and pin it to my shirt. :rolleyes: Of course I'd do that and then forget to look down :rolleyes:

Off topic, but Sherrie!
Your lamps are beautiful!
Where have I been to have missed those! :)

Hope

what really hurts my feelings though is when people say "hey, can you copy xyz but make it cheaper than the mama that came up with the idea

Oh, Danica, That does hurt.

I definately know how everyone must feel. One week you may be the exclusive sling maker, diaper maker, etc....a month later there are three. The next month there are 12.

It makes it very hard to maintain a business.

Oh-I want to second Sherries lamps ROCK!
or are cool, beautiful, whatever.
Whatever your theme is, I think it will blend with anything.

I admit I copied one item, and made some changes. But it was for personal use - not profit - and when I was done with the items I made, I gave them away with the original products I had bought.

I was thinking last night :rolleyes: and I remember waaaaay back (this will show how long I've been here) when this was a diaper board, I met a mama named Jennifer U. (won't type last name) and she and I decided to get together for a WAHM business. She made Jenny Oh's and I made mama cloth. (I was not able to keep up with orders, so I stopped actively selling my pads online) I'm not even listing the name of my cloth since I'm finally going to try to get the name protected. (but I bet it was been ripped off by now....see, I am speculating!)

Anyway, there were nearly zero mama cloth sellers back then (Glad Rags was the only cloth I could find anywhere at that time) and I remember; quite a while later; the first time I saw a pad that looked a lot like my design being sold and my initial reaction was hurt.

However, now that it is years later, I look at all the mama cloth designs out there and most are a variation off of each other and it is one of those items where making a totally individual pad is nearly impossible.

Now, I do see some unique fabrics used and I really think those pads from Rhythm & Blues are different from any others I've seen.....but the rest of the pads out there are basically offshoots from the original one......Glad Rags, KWIM?

I suppose cloth diapers are the same way. (not sure since I never made and sold those) However my guess is that Jenny's were copied.

Now some mamas here have clothing (and some bags, handcrafts etc...) that really do have a signature look and I think it would be easier to say with confidence that "X, Y, or Z" was a copy of their original design. But most WAHM products? I think it would be impossible and irresponsible (in some cases) to accuse someone else of copying, KWIM?


I'd hope that if a mama *thinks* another is copying their design that they'd contact them privately and inquire about it. If anything, you will not be carrying around ill feelings. And what if you are wrong in your assumptions? All those hurt feelings towards another for nothing. Not to mention if any behind the scenes gossip were going on, without actually contacting the "copier-in-question"? That could really cause hurt far beyond the initial worry that a copy is out there, KWIM?


Some black and white in this topic...sure, but it is mostly a gray area.

Ok, I need some other thing to ponder today.....off to find some other thread that sticks with me.

Michelle

Originally posted by sweetlavender
if it is trademarked or Registered.

And YES I would be hurt. Was it a biz idea or an actual product that you came up with and sell?

Yes, but even if it's not copyrighted or TM'd, it's considered intellectual property if it's your idea. This is common in the art world. At least that's what my artist friends talk about. Anyway, I don't know the logistics, but I would think it applies to copy-cats of ANY type.

It's an extremely frustrating situation.

Originally posted by mamathyme
Off topic, but Sherrie!
Your lamps are beautiful!
Where have I been to have missed those! :)

Hope

:) Well you must have been on another planet!:) Thank you for the compliment :heart:

~Sherrie

I think Kristerae and Danica are both on target. Some things are blatantly copied, be it the idea or the actual product being copied. Respecting other people and their ideas are essential to honest business, especially in a community such as AW.

Other things just happen. Kristerae and Danica both pointed out the Lavender Vanilla soap as an example. Had Kristerae made some without realizing where she'd heard it I don't think she would have done anything wrong. How many ways are there to make some items? Many things DH makes are things that have been made before, certainly nothing new. He and I both strive not to copy but some things are going to be similar. I think with diapering it's nearly the same. There are many ways to make a diaper, but there are even more WAHM's making them than there are designs.

You could always look at the bright side... Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

Originally posted by mum2conor
I had a somehwat similar situation here too. I was selling holiday teething dolls. They were similar to a lot of other teething dolls, but I some one placed a large order with me and then came back the next day and said she found another amity mama to "copy" my doll for a $1 less. That really bothered me. For one thing, if someone asked me to copy another amity mama, I never would! It also bothered me that she backed out of the large order. :mad:

That is horrible!!! :mad:

Yes I get my feelings hurt when I see that which I KNOW I created being sold on other sites (even by 'i'm not a wahm, i just want to make a few of these to sell'), or even here a few times. I was shocked and hurt.

I've been in business for 3 years now and try to rely on my positive customer base for support. I'm lucky that there are so many kind wahm's and friends that let me know when I'm being copied. I don't make that much on CookiePants. Just enough for a few extras. Been saving for a year for a new sewing machine to replace my 1986 model.

:butterfly

Back to the OP--- What's the product??? :confused:

Originally posted by Mama*Kristen
Back to the OP--- What's the product??? :confused:

I know...I've been watching to see, I'm so curious now LOL...

FTR, and FWIW, I certainly have never ever ever intentionally copied anyone with my diaper bags, or doll diaper sets, I looked around to (hopefully) ensure that I wasn't before I started making them...lol. I'll be making them again in the new store when it opens, and I'm always ALWAYS paranoid, even though I KNOW I have made the designs from my own creative process, I'm paranoid that someone is going to feel like I am copying them, even though , *I* Think mine are pretty "different" from other wahm's, does that make sense? LOLOL...It's late, I'm tired, so it may not LOL.

Anyway, back to the beginning of my post here, I'm really interested now, in knowing what the OP's product is!

I'm visiting my mom and trying to use her Mac on dial-up.:mad: I wrote this long response a few days ago and thought that was it. Decided to check up on the thread and saw no post from me!!:confused:

I don't really feel the same as I did earlier. I have REALLY thought about it and realized it does not matter. If someone wants to copy me, go for it. We are all out there to support our families in any way we can. I understand that.

Lifeabeach-I don't think you can compare the towel bag thing. If I remember correctly, you found it on the web and even did a sew and show. Which I did not use. I just made up my own. Everyone was making them. I did not intend to put them on my store. Locals kept asking for them after seeing my kids' at swin lessons. It was the easiest way to show them fabrics and such. I never sold one to an amity member. If at any time you had asked me not to make them, I would have stopped.

Anyway, lets move on.:D

I just wanted to pipe in and say that is this is over the towel bag.. I don't think anyone here can claim that as an "original" design, as my son has had one since he was born.. over 4 years ago, and by a women that said she had been making them for the last 10 years for her grandchildren. (not saying its her design, just that she has been making them for quite some time)

It does suck being copied. Especially when someone pm's someone that has replied to your thread and offers to make them the same product. :mad: But, there really isn't much you can do.. i think it speaks volumes for the person that copied your creation if that is what happened.

Yes, but even if it's not copyrighted or TM'd, it's considered intellectual property if it's your idea. This is common in the art world. At least that's what my artist friends talk about. Anyway, I don't know the logistics, but I would think it applies to copy-cats of ANY type.

Really though, everything in the art world has been copied at one time or another. Trust me on this, I've had many, many grueling art history exams. The general idea among myself and my artist friends is that it is the ultimate form of flattery to be copied and also that no matter how how someone tries they cannot completely and identically copy someone else's artwork - although for some crafty things using a pattern I could see how you could exactly copy it. But I feel that most people who are creative to have the ability to sew or make crafts or make fine art are creative enough to add their own personal touches.

Believe me, I know exactly why people get upset, and I used to also get upset when my work got copied, but the more I read and learned about art , the less I felt that way and the more I felt that artists and craftspeople are just building and adding onto ideas that have been around for a really long time. I personally think that in the art world that people go too far and instead of promoting a learning, postive, sharing environment, artists are fighting amongst themselves too much and some very talented people are getting pushed out of art/crafts/etc because the people who take offense at the "copycats" when they in fact are probably copying to one extent or another some artist from the past. I think it's worse in academia than the real world!

I guess my ideal is thinking about how artists and craftsmen in foreign countries work so co-operatively - a potter in Japan for instance might not throw any of his work, or glaze it, or fire it, but only sign his name to the finished product. Students and apprentices do everything else for him. I'm off on a tangent here, sorry OP, I'll stop vefore I write a book. :)

My whole point here is that I think it is the most sincere form of flattery and I would love to answer questions about the techniques I use- like someone else said, it's always much nicer to be asked openly than have people "sneak" around, but I think that the environment in the art world makes it so that people are afraid to ask openly. I do majorly disagree with people asking others to copy work for less $$$ though since artists and craftspeople and especially WHAMS are already working at a pay rate that in most cases never even comes close to what they actually should be paid if they were to add up all the time and energy invested in the product. And when people underbid similiar products, it hurts everyone in the business!!!!!!!

Well said, Amoreena! :)

Hope

Michelle - I remember Jenny Oh! :) I hope my pads werent' the ones you thought looked like yours. I couldn't afford Glad Rags, so I used an Always pad with wings and used it as my guide... made it a little longer... then tweeked it a lot more. Never had a cloth pad to even compare it to.

Just wanted to make sure you know that I didn't copy anyone! lol

This used to be a big issue... lots of people were ordering diapers or pads or whatever then making their own and undercutting on the price.