For example, quitting a full time job to SAH or even take a lower paying, or part time job, if it means you'd have to use food banks? Is that ok in your book?

hmm, I think it would depend on the circumstances.
For a husband I wouldnt think it was ok ( is that hypocritical?). For a mom- if your husbands job didnt make quite enough and it was more important for you to stay home then work, I would think yes I wouldnt " look down" on someone who made that choice. I would reason it out and say " sure maybe you are replying on the community to make your ends meet, but really you are doing your community a favor by raising your children youself instead of having someone else do it" In the long run you are doing the community a favor I think.
Of course other people may argue that your doing your children a favor by showing them work ethics, not relying on someone else etc.. Guess it just depends on what way you want to look at it.
I think most people could get by on less without foodbanks etc anyways if they put their energy into learning to be as frugal as possible, making lifestyle changes so as to be able to stay home.

For a single mom- I wouldnt look down on them for anything. If you dont have the support , not only financially but otherwise also of a husband then sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, and if your kids need you and you can work less and rely on a food bank, then maybe that is your best choice. You have to weigh out exactly what your priorities are and what is most needed and go from there.

I think it depends on what is most important to you. If self-reliance is most important than I can understand you choosing to keep working, but if raising your kids full-time is most important I wouldn't have a problem with that decision.

I made a similar decision. We ended up making the choice that we would rather go bankrupt than to let someone else "raise" our son. I quit my job to stay at home with my son and I have no regrets. It hasn't been easy financially, but always being there for my boys has much greater rewards. I don't think most people would have made the decision we did.

no.

I don't think it is a good decision or therefore a right decision.

Food banks are important to many but to make ends meet this way willfully just doesn't make sense.

Shrug.

I think this is something you should look at the pros and cons to.
It's a "personal" choice imo (even though the family would be relying on something that is funded by taxes).

You should do what you truly feel is right for your children and your family.

Im a single mom. I get no support of any kind from my son's father. My son and I live w/my parents so I can stay at home with him.

I do feel guilty for not being more successfull "in the real world" and having at depend on my parents. I feel like I should be taking care of them not the other way around.

Life happens.

I am thankfull that I do have family support and am able to stay at home w/my son.

The only thing I get is medicaid for my son (not myself, except for when I was pregnant). I could qualify for more (like wic and I think food stamps) but it's not something we *really* need so I don't. I really *hate* dealing w/these kinds of agencies so that's another reason I don't apply.

Like others have said if you feel staying home w/your children is what is important to you then I say it's worth it.

Id do almost anything to not have to put my child in daycare.

Every family does what is best for them.

I hope you figure things out. it's not an easy decision.

No. To knowingly create this circumstance, i believe, is wrong. Food banks and charity should be left for those who CAN'T work or who have unforseen circumstances, etc. Taking care of your family financially is just as important as taking care of them physically. IMO. What about working PT to make ends meet? Staggered shifts with the hubby so there's no daycare? Family to babysit? There are usually lots of options out there. (((HUGS)))

No I wouldn't. The only way I would is if I had a medically fragile child that needed me 24/7 for example.
HTH!

Originally posted by miraclemom
No. To knowingly create this circumstance, i believe, is wrong. Food banks and charity should be left for those who CAN'T work or who have unforseen circumstances, etc. Taking care of your family financially is just as important as taking care of them physically. IMO. What about working PT to make ends meet? Staggered shifts with the hubby so there's no daycare? Family to babysit? There are usually lots of options out there. (((HUGS)))

:ditto:

Originally posted by miraclemom
No. To knowingly create this circumstance, i believe, is wrong. Food banks and charity should be left for those who CAN'T work or who have unforseen circumstances, etc. Taking care of your family financially is just as important as taking care of them physically. IMO. What about working PT to make ends meet? Staggered shifts with the hubby so there's no daycare? Family to babysit? There are usually lots of options out there. (((HUGS)))


What she said!!!!


I've worked off and on over the years at jobs that were way below my schooling etc.....so we could make ends meet. So I know there is a way to do it.

That said, I'm starting to work again due to some high medical bills that we just incurred. It can be done. (working part-time)

To use public assistance as a *first resort* is not a good idea IMHO. I think it should be used in dire emergencies.

However this is a topic that really really gets to me. Those who use the system when they are physically able to work. Those who have baby after baby on public assistance....etc....

This is where I struggle at being judgemental and a major jerk.

Michelle

Originally posted by miraclemom
No. To knowingly create this circumstance, i believe, is wrong. Food banks and charity should be left for those who CAN'T work or who have unforseen circumstances, etc. Taking care of your family financially is just as important as taking care of them physically.

Yup, Nikki summed it up pretty well. I stopped working after having dd, but DH's job wasn't making enough, so I had to take on a part-time job. I did manage to find something that I could do from home (I was lucky), but it still isn't pleasant to have to get back up after dd goes to bed to put in an hour or two at the computer. But we needed extra money to put food on the table & make our house payments, so I had to step up. I hope someday that dh will get enough raises so that I can stop working for pay & go bacl to 100% momm-ing, but we aren't there yet.

I donate to food banks to help those who have disasters or med bills, or otherwise unforseen problems. i would get pretty irritated if my donated food went to someone who just didn't want to work in a sucky job, ykwim?

I agree with many of the posters. I think public assistance is a very needed thing for those who have no other choices. But I strongly believe that people should do everything they can to help themselves first, and that includes working at mind numbingly boring jobs if need be. I don't think it is wrong to accept help, I do think it is wrong to do it because you have deliberately put yourself in that position.

Originally posted by Scarlet
I agree with many of the posters. I think public assistance is a very needed thing for those who have no other choices. But I strongly believe that people should do everything they can to help themselves first, and that includes working at mind numbingly boring jobs if need be. I don't think it is wrong to accept help, I do think it is wrong to do it because you have deliberately put yourself in that position.

What she said.

That said, I think it is absolutely essential for those in need and I certainly want those in need to take full advantage without one ounce of guilt. I want my tax and donated dollars to support those who, for whatever reason, CANNOT support themselves.

Find another way to make ends meet so that you can stay at home with your kids. Cut some expenses, clean 1 or 2 houses a week to supplement (housekeepers in our area charge $20-$25 an hour)... brainstorm until you find a way to stay at home without depending on assistance. If you get in a pinch and need it then *do* take advantage of it.. but don't set yourself up to rely on it. Good luck!

edited to add:
I thought about this a little more and I really have no problem with my tax dollars going to help someone to stay at home with their kids (certain specific situations ). I would much prefer this than having it used to pay someone's daycare expenses ... as it is now.

edited because I keep leaving words out:mad:

If you make more money, can dh saty home or get the part-time job? Just another spin on the situation...

From someone who has been in this situation before...let me tell you...Food banks are not all you may think they are. My husband had a bad accident at work putting him out of work for MONTHS. We ended up losing everything..house, vehicles, everything. We had to use food banks several times and let me tell you...you don't want to have to live off that food...believe me. I agree with what a lot of the mamas on here said. If you can work from the home...do it. I have tried to get some babysitting jobs here, but I am sort of "out of the way" from most the moms that need it. I would never make a conscious effort to RELY on food banks. Most of the stuff is just canned veggies, which go a LONG way, but still...if you want a "meal" that's more than macaroni and cheese every day, you are going to have to go to the store. lol Good luck with your decision. I LOVE being at home with my two kids...I wouldn't trade those first smiles, words, steps, waving, or anything if I had the choice. (((((HUGS)))))) Do what's right for your family and don't let anyone judge you that hasn't met you and doesn't know your circumstances.

Sandy

double standard~

if you're talking about a mama quitting her job to be home with her children, i support that :thumbsup:

if you're talking about a father quitting his job to stay home, i wouldn't want anything to do with it & don't support than decision.

my family pays plenty of taxes & i am thrilled the money we pay can help a mamas out there be home with their kids, even when it means they need a helping hand from govt programs.

I think it really depends on the circumstances.

I think if it's temporary, is one thing.. but to do it for a long term basis, no way.

I think there are alot of ways you can make other income that will allow you to stay home with your kids, and not RELY on food banks/charity.... however, everyone has unforseen circumstances, and if you're talking about using it for backup/emergencies only... ok.

Dh made next to no money when we got married, I stayed home, and we cut every corner we could.... dh mowed lawns, planted trees, helped paint, you name it for extra money.
I babysat, and would also do filing for a local business 1 day a week.
We ate inexpensively, and clipped coupons whenever we could.
We walked when it was a option, and tried to make trips 1 day a week, and do everything at once.

Our life was fine, honestly, I think I had less stress than I do now that dh makes ok money, and we have more.

I do however think though, that if the person is planning on quitting a job, and realizes that they are going to have to rely on charity most of the time, then no it's not ok.
This may sound hateful, but I don't think my family should loose so much in taxes for someone else to 'live off of'... my 4 (almost 5) kids and I could use that money too... and it really irritates me to see people who just don't want to work (And we have alot of those here too) living off our tax dollars.

Originally posted by CincoDeMama
double standard~

if you're talking about a mama quitting her job to be home with her children, i support that :thumbsup:

if you're talking about a father quitting his job to stay home, i wouldn't want anything to do with it & don't support than decision.

my family pays plenty of taxes & i am thrilled the money we pay can help a mamas out there be home with their kids, even when it means they need a helping hand from govt programs.

I know many stay at home dads and they are fabulous with their kids. What's wrong with it?

:o

Scout - Your post is pretty vague, so it is hard to give my opinion on your situation...

I personally would not change my job situation if it meant having to rely on charity/public assistance. What I would do, however, if my situation wasnt working for my family is ALTER it to make things more comfortable. Move to a cheaper place, cut down on bills (cable, internet, things ya dont *need* to live). Get the bills down so you can change your job and still afford to make ends meet.

I dont know anything about you or your situation so i cant really offer any more of an opinion. Good luck tho!!

"my family pays plenty of taxes & i am thrilled the money we pay can help a mamas out there be home with their kids, even when it means they need a helping hand from govt programs."

I agree with Cass on this one.
I want to support my community and am happy to hear my tax dollars are going to something I support. Pretty rare in my life. I was a case worker for DSHS and believe with every part of me that we should support people for their basic needs. Food medical housing....
This is not happening. People are not able to feed and house their children or selves. Our country is wealthy enough to make sure there are no starving children. So why are there?
Think of all the corporate welfare for gosh sakes. The very wealthy in our nation get more help from our tax dollars than we will ever see anyone in need get. It sucks.
Why is it that a well off woman is a good mom if she stays home with her children but a woman in poverty is lazy? There are plenty of good parents that do not have alot of money and plenty of bad parents that have alot.
I would be worried about making this decision though knowing that outside help in not going to make ends meet. Food banks get alot of very unhealthy food and not enough to feed a family. I would not want to count on them. It sounds scary to me honestly. But I want to send my support that you do what you need to do to meet your families needs. I wish you the best of luck.

Aphrodite

you could also keep your job while learning and beginning to grow your own food. even with just a little bit of space that should help.

food does not have to be the large expense that some families make it.

Originally posted by Scarlet
I agree with many of the posters. I think public assistance is a very needed thing for those who have no other choices. But I strongly believe that people should do everything they can to help themselves first, and that includes working at mind numbingly boring jobs if need be. I don't think it is wrong to accept help, I do think it is wrong to do it because you have deliberately put yourself in that position.

I agree with this

This is jmnsho but I think it is morally and ethically wrong to quit a job that you know that the only way you are going to survive is off of public assistance. Public assistance is there for people to help them when they get in a bind. I know, I know...the system is abused. I do not know your whole situation so am just going by what little you have posted.

I worked full time until my dd was 18 mo and was laid off. She did not go to day care while I worked. My dh and I worked different shifts so someone was at home with her at all times. When I was laid off we really had to cut corners but it has been worth it. We know have three kids, have moved to a different state and we are still making it. Albeit it is definitely hard at times...especially when my dh went through a 6 month layoff himself. He did receive unemployment and we barely scrapped by. We did not receive food stamps nor did we go through WIC. Our families did help us out. Since there was nothing available in his field where we are and he was either "over qualified" or not "qualified enough" he decided to go through truck driving school and is currently driving truck. We really, really wanted to stay where we are living...it is a piece of heaven on earth...so we are doing everything we can to stay here. We have now paid off the money that we had borrowed from family and it will be another year before the rest of our debt is paid off and will then only have a house payment and probably a car payment at that point (we are hoping that the vehicle will make it at least another year before we have to start looking).

I am currently working part time but out of the home doing work for a small business owner from the state we used to live in. I started working for him a few years before we moved up here to Maine.

We are learning to grow our own food and are trying our hand at chickens and pigs this year. We hope to have some cows in a couple of years.

If you really want to stay home you can do it without going on public assistance. Will it be easy...absolutely not but it can be done. It might mean a move, it could be your dh has to pick up another job or maybe you doing something at a different point in the day. Again, I do not know your situation so I can only throw out some suggestions that maybe others have posted about.

Yikes, that was long winded. Sorry about that.

Good luck with your decision. I know it is not an easy one to make.

Take care,

Patricia

nm

Originally posted by Snugglbond
hmm...

it's never ok for a person (or family) to "plan" to let others pay for their lifestyle...and staying home with your children vs. paying your own way is a lifestyle choice in our country. That may not be a popular opinion but it's how I feel.

...There are options. As people have mentioned & as we did, stagger shifts, work multiple jobs. Take assistance for a while then get off, but it is never ok (morally) to plan for others to support you and your choices (circumstances may not be your choice but how you handle them long-term is your choice).

Help is there for emergencies and crisis situations. I'm fully aware that it is abused but I feel strongly that we should be self-sufficient when at all possible...kids will survive and thrive, it may break a parents heart to not be there constantly, but ultimately it is the parent's responsibilty to provide food and needs for said child(ren)-not everyone else's responsibility.

...Things It's not our responsibility to support people who make lifestyle choices which require us to support them.

(I deleted parts of your quote just to make my reply shorter.)

I agree with what you said.

For me personally, I would not make an employment decision if it would make me rely on charity. It's one thing to need the assistance because of UNAVOIDABLE circumstances, but another to choose to take charity over paying your own way.

Having a need means you don't have any productive choice.

Choosing to live a lifestyle in which you can not afford is not a need, it is a luxury.

I don't think it is right to use charities to pay for things you choose not to work for yourself.

I'm another who thinks it's wrong... unless it is the ONLY option...

I think it's important and wonderful for parents to be home with their kids... I think spending money on daycare is a pain...

but I hate it that I HAVE to work to support our family since currently dh doesn't make enough to support us alone and so out of my hard earned money is going taxes and money to pay for those who CHOSE to stay at home with their kids and let ME pay for it...

that really makes me mad

(and I know there are exceptions... I know some people CAN'T make it without the system and that's why it's there... it's those that CHOOSE not to make it without that drive me crazy)

wanted to come back and add an addendum... I do think it is ok if you have certain circumstances... for instance, if my child was diagnosed with leukaemia and his prognosis was that it was advanced cancer with a life expectancy of 6 months then yes, I would be prepared to quit a good paying job to be at home with him, take him to hospital etc. If I had a brain injured child that I couldn't find adequate care for I would also consider quitting my job. I wouldn't do it to stay home with my healthy children when I couldn't afford it. I know some people quit their mundane but well paying job to follow a dream, I personally wouldn't feel right about putting my family in that position and I think it is irresponsible.

Originally posted by fericito
I hate it that I HAVE to work [snip] and so out of my hard earned money is going taxes and money to pay for those who CHOSE to stay at home with their kids and let ME pay for it...

that really makes me mad

(and I know there are exceptions... I know some people CAN'T make it without the system and that's why it's there... it's those that CHOOSE not to make it without that drive me crazy)

:ditto:

As I've said many many times, I'm happy to have my $ support those without other realistic options (for instance, can only make enough to cover daycare - what's the sense of that?), but I am not supportive of the tax dollars I contribute from my full-time employment (because I have debt that must be repaid) going to support people who chose to stay home. Gosh, I wish I had that choice.

Wow....well, I bust my ass to make ends meet sometimes and I pay taxes on that money. Taxes I do NOT want going to someone who chooses to not work. I'd love to stay home with my kids too....but charity, food stamps, cash aid, etc. are all for those in need. Last resort. Not because you decided to SAH. If you can't afford to SAH, you need to look into other options. I don't like daycare, well most....but know there are many other options. I don't have the "luxury" of family help, so dh and I have worked opposite shifts for YEARS so one of us could always be home. I worked 5 min. from home when Justin was 6 months old and dh brought him to me to nurse during the day.....or I'd come home. It was hard, believe me, at times...but we do what we have to do. I made the choice to have these kids, they are mine to support. No one should have to pay for me to SAH...it's a luxury and not a need. And if you view it as a need, as many do, you need to come up with a way for you to support that and make it happen. (General you) Justin was born at 32/33 weeks and was on an Apnea monitor for months.....we depleted all savings and dh worked a part-time 2nd job so I could SAH those first few important months. It sucked at times, but we did it.

IMO "choosing" to use the system when it's not a real need is abuse and wrong. Consider working opposite shifts as dh, working weekends only, having dh get a 2nd job, cutting expenses more, etc. It can be done, and imo, should be done before ever thinking about welfare or charity. JMO.

i was thinking about this today while i was doing yardwork. i had another thought...

if your child is in danger or you suspect abuse and the only way to help him/her is to quit your job then i think quitting is the right thing to do. protect your child first, then quickly move toward self-reliance.

Originally posted by ~Denise~
Wow....well, I bust my ass to make ends meet sometimes and I pay taxes on that money. Taxes I do NOT want going to someone who chooses to not work. I'd love to stay home with my kids too....but charity, food stamps, cash aid, etc. are all for those in need. Last resort. Not because you decided to SAH. If you can't afford to SAH, you need to look into other options. I don't like daycare, well most....but know there are many other options. I don't have the "luxury" of family help, so dh and I have worked opposite shifts for YEARS so one of us could always be home. I worked 5 min. from home when Justin was 6 months old and dh brought him to me to nurse during the day.....or I'd come home. It was hard, believe me, at times...but we do what we have to do. I made the choice to have these kids, they are mine to support. No one should have to pay for me to SAH...it's a luxury and not a need. And if you view it as a need, as many do, you need to come up with a way for you to support that and make it happen. (General you) Justin was born at 32/33 weeks and was on an Apnea monitor for months.....we depleted all savings and dh worked a part-time 2nd job so I could SAH those first few important months. It sucked at times, but we did it.

IMO "choosing" to use the system when it's not a real need is abuse and wrong. Consider working opposite shifts as dh, working weekends only, having dh get a 2nd job, cutting expenses more, etc. It can be done, and imo, should be done before ever thinking about welfare or charity. JMO.

:thumbsup:

Coming from a BTDT stand point, IMO Denise, you are right on.

I've only recently (well since May) have been able to stay home with my kids- and for me, its a luxury that has its prices. We sacrifice to make ends meet, but its totally worth it in my opinion.
If faced with a situation where we are in need, I would go back to work in a heart beat before going on assistance. For me, assistance is for those who truly need it, and if I can physically work, then so be it.

.

Originally posted by ~Denise~
Wow....well, I bust my ass to make ends meet sometimes and I pay taxes on that money. Taxes I do NOT want going to someone who chooses to not work. I'd love to stay home with my kids too....but charity, food stamps, cash aid, etc. are all for those in need. Last resort. Not because you decided to SAH. If you can't afford to SAH, you need to look into other options. I don't like daycare, well most....but know there are many other options. I don't have the "luxury" of family help, so dh and I have worked opposite shifts for YEARS so one of us could always be home. I worked 5 min. from home when Justin was 6 months old and dh brought him to me to nurse during the day.....or I'd come home. It was hard, believe me, at times...but we do what we have to do. I made the choice to have these kids, they are mine to support. No one should have to pay for me to SAH...it's a luxury and not a need. And if you view it as a need, as many do, you need to come up with a way for you to support that and make it happen. (General you) Justin was born at 32/33 weeks and was on an Apnea monitor for months.....we depleted all savings and dh worked a part-time 2nd job so I could SAH those first few important months. It sucked at times, but we did it.

IMO "choosing" to use the system when it's not a real need is abuse and wrong. Consider working opposite shifts as dh, working weekends only, having dh get a 2nd job, cutting expenses more, etc. It can be done, and imo, should be done before ever thinking about welfare or charity. JMO.

:thumbsup:

Well said Denise!

I remember working as a grocery store clerk nights.....as soon as my husband got home from work, I went to work. My supervisor was a high school Junior and I had a Bachelors degree at the time but this was the only job that kept my children out of daycare. I've also done other odd jobs (including babysitting) and my dh has worked concrete on his summers off (when he was teaching) to help.

We have been fortunate the past few years but I am needing to start work again here in a month because of some unexpected medical bills. I am not happy about it, but that is life, KWIM? It would be way easier for my dh to quit his job as a principal and go back to being a teacher becuase we'd never have another medical bill since we'd qualify for every state program, KWIM?.....but it would be ethically and morally wrong. (meaning against our personal ethics and morals)

On a side note about abusing the system.....what gets me angry and just darned ticked off is the families with a SAHM who have baby after baby after baby.....all on state welfare. This makes me mad because my dh and I wanted nine children and stopped at six becuase we could not provide financially for anymore than six due to the medical issues. Then I see these other families doing what they want w/out a care for who is footing the bill because they WANT and feel entitled to have more babies etc....

Then I see some in my dh's family (and in society) who do what they WANT and let the rest of us pay the bill. I mean, my sister in law's children have always had all the medical they have needed.....because they have sucked off the welfare system ever since I've known them. We can't pay for a dentist visit but our taxes are sure paying for my sister-in-law to never have to bat a eyelash about anything. GRRRRRR. She and her husband also are finishing up building their own NEW HOUSE and it has all been done while manipulating/working/abusing the system....that makes me really really mad. :vent:

Also our neighbor draws unemployment and other benefits and only works when he has to to make sure he will still be able to draw the unemployment and other benefits. (he does this by working construction) Here the rest of us work our asses off to live in this neighborhood and this guy and his family (just moved in here in April) are freeloading off of the rest of us in the neighborhood. He does not seem to care one bit about doing this and actually finds it funny.

Those are just two examples that get my blood boiling. I hate how judgemental I get about this, but I do and can't help it.

Michelle

If your children need you, they need you. If they need food they need food. But here is my thing.

If you quite full time-work part-time you will find a way to provide for the kiddos. There is always a way.

(why would working part-time change food income?)

Do you have a spouse or boyfriend? to compensate?

If so, just budget well. Food doesn't have to be the expense it is however, food cost has gone up and I could understand that at the end of the month pushing going to a food closet.

We are low income but have yet had to turn to a food closet. If you need it by all mean take it. What bites me is the people who don't and still take it because they can.

I have concerns about RELYING on a food bank as your source of food. IN addition to all the reasons above, what do you do when it's a weak week at the food bank, as it can be in summers (because it's just a low time for donations in most places), or over the winter (weather-based layoffs and people who do grow food may find they are now without a major food source in their garden)? What do you do then? Now you have to scramble to feed your children because you have no income? IMHO that's relying on an unreliable source and not knowing whether there will be enough food for my kids week to week would have me in a low level panic - a condition that isn't very safe for a mama.

~amey

Originally posted by Mamax4
I don't know how people can even answer the OP without more info.

Laurie


I'm cutting and pasting the Subject line and post itself from the OP:

"" Is it ok to make an employment decision that causes you to rely on charity?

For example, quitting a full time job to SAH or even take a lower paying, or part time job, if it means you'd have to use food banks? Is that ok in your book?""

To me, the OP is asking about someone making a conscious decision to stop or lower work to be able to be a SAH. Because of how it is worded "make an employment *decision*" (*'s are my own for emphasis)

However, you do make a good point about not knowing the exact circumstances...however, the OP makes it sound like it is a decision because they want to be a SAH parent.

But then again, maybe the question is about a single mother wanting to quit full-time work to become a full-time college student??? If this were the case, relying on welfare for a few years while she/he gets a college degree does not bother me as long as it is temporary and the person hits the workforce afterwards and does not make welfare their career, KWIM?

A college degree would give a single parent a lifetime of higher wages.

Anyway, you make a good point here. But I do think the original OP was pretty clear......I would like more clarification from Scout. (the origninal OP)

MIchelle