I looked at this awhile ago and decided it wasn't yet time for such a purchase. I think that if we move into homeschooling without a plan, we'd be fine. My husband, however, is not as confident. He wants us to have some sort of plan to see "progress". He is a teacher and while the public school model displeases him and he's trying to get out, I think we are coming at homeschooling from different points on the educational continuum (Did I spell that right?).
And it does seem that when we have someTHING to focus on, we (Eli and I) do focus more...and that focus may be something worth buying rather than creating on my own. I guess I am worrying that I will spend hundreds of dollars on a curriculum that we won't use...My husband hasn't looked at it yet...and I know his initial reaction will be hesitation. And I can't blame him really. I am hesitant too.
I guess I am wondering what is in the curriculum...like there are art projects and things, right? I taught art for years so I think I could handle those. And stories? myths? legends? new stories?

I could always re-sell the curriculum if we got it and it didn't work for us...but hm...this was long and pointless, but in the world of curricula, I am simply lost.

Jennifer.

Hi Jennifer, :)

I don't have the Enki curriculum, but I am watching this thread because I am also very interested in the answers. We are lucky in that there is a large handful of Amity mamas who have ordered Enki and hopefully we'll receive some helpful replies to your questions.

I've heard so many good things about Enki; I just wish there was a curriculum store where I could peruse it in person.

Tara

:bounce: giving this a bump, I want to know too.

exactly!
If it's going to cost our family a large investment, then I want to be sure it's the best way to spend our money...and not just my latest jones...kwim? I get these notions sometimes...and if I ignore them, they go away...and if I try to satisfy them, it doesn't work.
Like...Oh, here's a good example - I used to absolutely fantacize (yes, this is insane) about my children having specific toys from the Playstore catalog. I was *sure* they would get hours of enjoyment from them...and blahblahblah...well, then, we saw the actual toy at a store an hour from here...and it was like, "Oh...that's kind of crap, isn't it?" I mean, seeing in person took all allure from it...and it taught me a couple of things:
1. I tend to lust after things (yes, things) that I think are unattainable...and drive myself up a wall trying to find ways to actually fulfill my desire.
2. I tend to deny myself things that are simple and easy to get - like organic orange juice. I won't pay extra for it...and I won't buy non-organic...BUT I will spend $6 on a nearly worthless magazine with adds for $1500 shoe chests for your guests to place their shoes in before coming into your home.
3. I do much better if I deal with things I can actually see and feel. Looking at pictures of things doesn't do it for me. I need to touch them...flip through them...etc. It's the "mystery" of it that gets me hooked.
4. I also have really bad follow-through. Good intentions, but bad at keeping up. This is one reason I feel a curriculum would be good for us. If I could use it, then it may keep me on track. And if I didn't have to gather everything and put it all in place, I could better concentrate on actually implementing the lessons.

So, I am not one of those people that can both get it together and keep it together. I can do one or the other.

Yegads...Where ya been, Jennifer? Self-revelation land?



Jennifer.

Jennifer, I am so there with you. I plan and make lists but have aproblem getting off my butt and *doing* it. I think it's my life leson right now, to just plain do it.

I have emailed the Enki people to see what they have to say about gifted kids in their program. They have a brick and morter school and have several gifted kids in it. I need to read it a few more times before I really have a feel of what they are saying.

Jennifer, I am so much the same way. But for some reason I didn't hesitate with Enki. I just knew, from reading the articles on the website, that I would use it, and love it. It was like falling in love. Now that sounds really cheesy, but I mean it. I felt a very deep, real connection to the underlying philosophy.

I think that is key. I just got my binder yesterday and am still reading the opening pages of the Teacher's Manual, which lays out the philosophy of Enki Education and its goals. One sentence said that its highest goals are compassion and reverence.

I am feeling so intense about it right now that I feel like this approach is truly saving humanity, raising children who are compassionate, thoughtful souls who may be able to turn this planet around from the destructive and violent path we are on.

Not to get too grandiose there. But there is a feeling of strong, intelligent, and heart-centered philosophical underpinnings to the curriculum.

Let me explain what I have and how it is laid out, from a practical perspective.

On the website they describe the "Resource Book" (available right now in K and 1) and the "Teacher's Guide." The TG (for short) is 700 pages and first goes through an overview of the philosophy and the principles of Enki Ed, then each grade, laying out the developmental tasks in all areas for each grade. If you wanted, you could just buy the TG and collect your own songs, stories, books, projects, etc. The TG would be like a philosophical bedrock for you and would lay out "scope and sequence" (Enki doesn't really fit that model but...I think it explains what kind of info it is) for each grade. So it's like a framework or guideline for each grade. It's the hows, whens and whys of what you do.

The Resource Book is the what. It's the meat. For K (the level I got) it is songs, fingerplays, verses, stories and folk tales, art projects, and handwork. For the upper grades I think it is more like main lesson blocks a la Waldorf, but I'm not 100% sure.

I ordered the "K Resource Book." It came with the "what" *as well as* the relevant pages from the TG - the first 166 or so pages. It came with the overview of Enki philosophy and the when, why, how of applying it to kindergarten.

So far I am deep in the philosophy section but truly loving it. I wish I could reflect more on it but I can't yet, I am too immersed in it.

My suggestion is to read every article on the website to see how it fits with you and whether you like it. A lot of it is deep and requires rereading, digesting, and thought. Read them all, wait a week, then read them again. E-mail Beth with any questions you have. This is the best way IMO to try Enki on...if you like it, you will love the curriculum.

I was all set to start typnig out a long response, but Lauren said it so well! I was going to say many of the exact same things, it is like falling in love... and I'm not the goooshy type.

I feel like there is truth at this ciriculum's heart. I too am immersed in the philosophy section, I also bought the TG so I have alot of readung and digesting going on. It will probably be a week or so before I can reflect at all.

In the mean time, I would join the yahoogroup WE_HS ( a waldorf group) and read the archives from two weeks ago... two peoples words there say more than volumes about the Enki way.
(you'll know the post I mean when you see it!)

I must say too that I am thrilled and almost speechless today- I spent an hour reading archives on the Enki users discussion forum and found nt one but almost a dozen of my "favorite" online people from Amity's and the Waldorf lists are there! These are the people who over the last four years, I have come to trust them and see them as incredible parents. I don't want to sound goofy, but Tara and Jenny C and Lauren and Alison and Kimberley and Steph and Michelle and Elizabeth, many of your posts over the last two years here at Amity's have given me the same things....I hope you all get a chance to read about Enki more and email Beth.

Oh, and we received the Enki school video too...my daughter walked in the house as I was watching it and said "mommy what are those kids doing?" and when I told her they were doing Enki things and that we were going to learn how to do them she hugged me and said "I've always wanted this" so hows that for odd and unusual response froma four year old?

Thanks for all the long, well-thought out responses.
I think that Enki is the best thing I've seen and my gut reaction is to just buy it. But it's more money than I am used to spending on anything besides rent and/or a car payment.
I've read the website over and over and I really do think it is a good program. But sometimes, I get books from the library about things I'm interested in - homeschooling, cooking, being thrifty - and my reaction is "Well, DUH!" because the information is so insipid...Like a homeschooling book that instructs you to teach your children to cut with scissors. And? Like you could somehow miss cutting with scissors?
Or a thrifty living book that says, "Stop buying dry clean only items" or "Cut down on dinners out." I haven't bought a new piece of clothing for myself in years...and dinners out? Ha! Sometimes we still end up doing it, but not often...and I know the whole time it's an absolute waste of money.
Anyhow, that is what I am afraid of doing - wasting money - on something that doesn't really move me into a new place, my children into new places. If I bought it, and I opened it and thought, "Well, no *$&%." I'd be so disappointed and out so much money.
But you all are so helpful and informative, maybe we'll take the plunge.

Jennifer.

Ahhh... well that's a more specific question. The money. That's exactly what kept me from buying it a year ago. I have EXACTLY the same jonsing for a new thing kind of way about me Jenny. It was a leap to think that Enki would Really be something new. Here's what I think now that I hold it:

First, the tone of the materials is very nourishing to me. I have been spending four years trying to get into Waldorf, but I kept treating it like a laundry list of things. Either toys I should buy/make, story books they must have, a specific color the walls should be... ect. Now, I son't think that is the intention of any of the big Waldorf sites or books, but that's how I was treating it none the less. I think this was because the web can read that way and so much of Steiner is either too dense or too abstract for the begginer. Also, I'm not an Anthroposophist so many of their spiritual truths just weren't resonating for me.

Second, I need to know WHY. Waldorf, Classical ed, Charlolette Mason, whatever it was I was fixating on at the moment I needed to know WHY this method was right for developing the kind of person I am hoping my kids will be, and HOW the method will help me to do it. That's what the TG is all about- the WHY. I am not a purist of anything, my kids get tv sometimes and I've even set foot in a Walmart... even religously speaking, I am Pagan, but love my Christian roots (the music speaks to my soul) So the explainations of what the soul is here to acomplish, how it is best guided to integration, that is what I crave.

Third, the focus on the teacher learning Mindfulness Meditation in a secular way - wow. How better to learn to open up my own inner peace and teach than to start here.

Forth, the multicultural stories: when I read about all cultures being covered so that the child could see the spiritual truths in all people... well I didn't need to read any more.

Wow, I didn't know I had that much to say. I guess the digesting is going well!

Good luck in your own decision, I know I'm glad I did it- wish I had two years ago!

Thanks, Jolene.

The more I read the more I like.

I have/had the same reaction to Waldorf - like it was a close fit, but not just right. There are parts of it that really fit with us and parts that really do not...and most of the hard-core waldorf people I know IRL are uncompromising...and I've often felt as I did when attending my grandparent's church...like it was a nice place to be, but just not really for me. The people were nice; the music pretty, but still, just not something I could take in and make my own. I loved my time there, but for what it meant to my family and me as a part of that family...not really fulfilling for me alone....make sense?

Jennifer.

AND it's also really hard for me to spend a big chunk o' money when I don't bring any in. Not that it's an issue for my husband...his paycheck is "our" paycheck in his mind even more so than mine. It's just my issue. Guilt and self-doubt. Self-doubt and guilt...I'd tell anyone else to get over it...but me? I just keep dragging it around. :rolleyes:

edited because I did not mean to sound negative in my post!

Hope

Oh, Hope!
I'm plenty motivated, but you can motivate more, I'm sure.

heh.

I pm'd you.

Jennifer.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate the detailed replies. Can we ask the moderator to make this post part of the FAQ section? It would be great to refer to.

Tara

Jolene - you and all the people you mentioned on AW are women whose posts I have read with interest and passion over the years, and I have taken much from what everyone has shared, gained inspiration and insight. And the 2 people you mention who are on the WE_HS list and posted so eloquently about Enki are definitely a big reason why I decided to take the plunge and buy the curriculum. I hadn't read those posts in particular before I ordered but I had asked for input on another board and they responded. I have always admired them and their dedication, thoughtfulness and love for their children.

I am the same way about Waldorf - feel itchy and weird about anthroposophy, and am too eclectic to be dogmatic about anything!

Jenny, it would be wonderful if someone in your area has the Enki curriculum for you to look at before you buy. I wish I'd had that. I would've felt totally secure in ordering it. It's tough because I believe (?) you are not supposed to resell it, even.

I can say that while I find that we are already quite a ways down the path recommended in terms of setting up indoor and outdoor environment for the kids, and even in overall philosophy of development, there is a lot in the TG pages that is completely new to me, and integrates aspects of my life that weren't before. And it gives me a clear, unifying "why" for all the things I have chosen. It's like the underpinnings of many of my thoughts and choices through the years are being spelled out for me...and lots of new ideas to me are thrown in there, too.

Okay...I just wanted to say, since I've spoken of my husband in this thread, that we talked about this curriculum last night. He read everything - or I read it to him since he was in the bath - and he said he was expecting us to spend about $100/month homeschooling both of our children once they are both of age. The Enki curriculum will be about $380 or so...and he thought that if it was what I thought would work, paying a little over $1 a day to facilitate our children's learning would be a bargain.
He talked a long time about how because we perceive education as "free", Americans also think it's cheap. It's not cheap at all and to his way of thinking, if we should skimp anywhere in our spending (which we do), it shouldn't be with education.
We are starting a homeschooling account - separate from our checking and measley savings - to be sure we always have cash available to do field trips and buy supplies.
I thought that was a fabulous idea myself.
Our discussion brought me around to a new way of thinking and made me relax about the whole thing.
Now, we don't have $100/month extra. We don't have $20/month extra. I doubt we would need that much money, but we will have to do something differently...because I believe David is right...if we are going to skimp anywhere, it should be somewhere else.


*** Wanted to clarify - I wasn't saying in the above that anyone *should* spend $XXX to guarantee a quality homeschool education for their child...only that my husband pointed out to me that my worry was misplaced. If there is anything I should *not* worry about spending money, it's quality materials. I know people who homeschool without spending any money whatsoever and it works for them. I know people who spend $5,000 plus homeschooling and it works for them. My point was not that money need be spent, but that that expenditure need not be worried over, justified or otherwise scrutinized. :)

I think David is onto something important, thankyou for sharing his thoughts. I too struggled with dh's money being our money (not him, me) but he said something similar... that he wanted our kids education to be more important than the other discretionary expenditures. Homeschooling can be done in soooo many ways, even for free as has been pointed out, but when I think about ways to spend what money we have learning new things always tops the list. And this is not always available at no cost. I am obsessed with learning, so when dh or i want to take a class or whateveer that goes at the top of the list too.
I think the thing about Enki is that is is a guide that will help me. Someone else may not want the same things as I do and spending money on it would be a mistake for them.

By the way, I'm in South western MA if anyone lives near and wants to see my books, I'm always up for a visit!

As I am just beginning to think about education a little, I am watching this with interest. Can someone help point me to resources which talk about how Enki differs from Waldorf education?? I Still don't know about homeschooling... still looking at options. Even if we don't homeschool, i will probably do some sort of loose curriculim the year Liam turns 5-- his birthday is in December, so he wil not start "regular" school until the following year. I think that first year will be a good tester year for us. Anywa, ramble, ramble, lol. I am interested in reading more about this, especially since some of my favorite mamas seem to hold it in such high esteem :)

btw, the only reading I have done is from the enkieducation website, so other resources are welcome !

heather

So could I work Enki in with TWTM? I really like the pedagogy of TWTM, but I don't like workbooks , some of Waldorf, and some of Charlotte Mason.

I'm still processing the response from Beth. It seems like she's saying "No matter if your daughter knows all the letters, she should learn them our way" which is a big turn off for me. Maybe it's dealing with an advanced learner (what phrase can i use that don't make me unhappy!) but it's hard to find the right fit for Annabelle and I. Heck, at this point I just want a good fit for *her*.

However, everything that everyone has said in this thread really makes me think. It's also from people who I really adore and respect.

Off to the WE_HS site to read up there.

I think I understand what you are saying Elizabeth. Sage could be called advanced or whatever (she is capable of doing phonic pathways, has read a bit, ect) I spent the last year or so trying out TWTM stuff because of this. I realized after this time though, that just because she is able to do something doesn't mean it's the best thing for her entire self developmentally. For instance, she became very perfectiionist about herself esp her 'schoolwork' she also seemed to be spending more and more time with the adults and being' intellectual' instead of playing.... I could go on. These are all things that many people (Sage's Grandparents esp.) thought were wonderful ~ "look at her persistence... see how grown up she is" ect . But spiritually I don't think that it has been a good experience for her to be so focussed on her brain instead of her body, there will be many more years for her to do that.
I think that Beth's point may also have been that just because a child knows something~ say her letters~ doesn't mean they have been made a true functioning part of her being. She will still benefit from learning them in an integrated manner when she is at the older developmental stage. I think. Of course i'm no expert, I a mom who's just trying to figure it out too. But there's my 2cents.

It's funny, Jenny, I had typed out the whole conversation Matt and I had about whether we should buy Enki, but I deleted it b/c I felt it was lengthy and b/c I didn't want it to seem like I was asking his permission..but in essence I was...I was asking for his help in determining whether this was an acceptable expenditure b/c I tend to overspend or impulsively spend, and b/c our budget is something we work on together and we discuss any major purchases with each other.

He said just about exactly what your dh said. Matt is a teacher, btw - teaches high school English.

That reassured me. Of course, our budget is so tight that it was a surprise "salary enhancement" or bonus that allowed us to buy the Resource Book. I don't know how I will afford the TG but I'm saving up for it and may consider asking the grandparents for it for a birthday present for the kids.

Heather, a good resource would be to search "enki" in the archives of WE_HS@yahoogroups.com. There has been a ton of discussion on it there, with moms that have been online for a long time in various circles (like AMU! in the early days) and whom I admire greatly. It should give you a good idea of how it differs from Waldorf.

Elizabeth, I'm not sure what to say. Enki is a good fit for us partly because my daughter is not super-precocious academically. I don't know if I've been "successful" at doing heart/hands development or if she is just naturally more heart/hands oriented. I suspect she is naturally that way. She knows her letters, numbers, can read, write, and if I assessed her for math she'd come out somewhere in the middle of first grade (can add/subtract single digits, understands fractions, etc, does not quite get place value). But she isn't "into" academics and doesn't ask to do them often. (Except science experiments and such...but she likes to do them on her own and not if I set them up for her.) If I had a profoundly advanced child like Sam, Hadyn or Annabelle seem to be, I'm not sure how well Enki or any "delayed academics" approach would work. I can't really speak to it...except to say that it *seems* flexible enough that it could be integrated with an unschooling approach where you pursue the child's interests. I'm not sure how that works past Kindergarten but I can see that the K level stuff could easily be integrated with more "advanced" work if the child were interested.

Here's a link to the article online about the differences.similarities between Waldorf and Enki, Heather.

http://www.enkieducation.org/html/qna_waldorf_homeschools.htm

HTH

Jolene, we were posting at the same time. Thanks for posting that as it helps me to understand...I have been having issues lately with the whole approach of waiting until later to begin academics. Your explanation is very clear and helps me reframe my own issues/expectations.

Do any of you feel like others think you are *crazy* when you mention delayed academics? I get some blank stares and wonder if everyone just thinks my child is less intelligent than theirs. So many people I meet homeschool in order to accellerate academics, so I come off as a freak.

I've been trying to come up with a good reason, one that validates what I do without pointing accusatory fingers at them for accellerating academics.

I have made no formal attempt to teach my boys letters or numbers. DS#1 (5YO) knows about half the uppercase alphabet, and most numbers 0-9. DS#2 (almost 4YO) knows almost no letters or numbers. They have no math knowledge other than what they have picked up naturally, which is counting some items.

Peace,

Kimberly

Originally posted by JennyC
...and he thought that if it was what I thought would work, paying a little over $1 a day to facilitate our children's learning would be a bargain.
He talked a long time about how because we perceive education as "free", Americans also think it's cheap. It's not cheap at all and to his way of thinking, if we should skimp anywhere in our spending (which we do), it shouldn't be with education.
We are starting a homeschooling account - separate from our checking and measley savings - to be sure we always have cash available to do field trips and buy supplies.
I thought that was a fabulous idea myself.


::: standing ovation :::: from me on this note! We agree wholeheartedly, and I think that what you and your husband were talking about is an extension of the whole homeschooling 'thing.' I mean, think about it, you are already spending dollars homeschooling by the very fact that you have chosen to do it rather than go back to work. Know what I mean? I could go back into the workforce and bring in a good chunk of change which would make many things possible for our family, but it would mean giving up homeschooling. And we don't think the extra money is anywhere near being worth that.

Tara

I just wanted to add :

I learned of Enki years ago & really liked the sound of it, but somehow never got around to just buying it. Recently an Enki co-operative was nearly started in our area, but too many people wanted pure Waldorf. She is still adding Enki to it,though. I saw her curriculum & will definitely be purchasing it.

Kimberly- I absolutely feel that way - even in the midst of homeschoolers - even around UNSCHOOLERS! I can not tell you how many times people have heard me say i delay my kid's reading and they say yes, but kids should definitely know how to read by 7! Sigh.... my dd taught herself to read at 10 & at 13 LOVES to read! My ds is 9 & neither he nor his almost 7 yr old sister read and I am HAPPY for it! They spend their days in creative play & such & I never have to worry what information they are taking in from the words around them. Soon there will come a day when they read & that part of the world will fill them up. But I am so glad that time is not now for them!

Sigh.....I definitely feel like a freak (and often allow myself to be full of self-doubt while listening to conversations between other homeschoolers who could ship their kids off to college by 9 LOL)

(P.S. - Everybody thought my dd was brilliant from talking with her - they never knew she couldnt read! LOL! She knows more than I do about everything! LOL!)

Yes, I do feel "crazy" in some ways. I just met a homeschool mom yesterday who took her dd out of 1st grade because she was bored, and told me she is now reading Harry Potter. I think that sparked some of my "issues" once again.

I was a very precocious young child and I got a lot of positive attention for it. I taught myself to read by 3 years old, dictated stories until I learned to write fluently at 4, read the whole Little House series by second grade, Little Women in 4th grade, and so on. It has been very difficult for me to accept that my daughter is *not* this way. Though I believe firmly in not pushing, I don't have the Waldorf/child development background to articulate clearly *why* her not reading yet is not only okay, but good. I just know that I haven't pushed or tried to sit down with her to "teach" her at all - I have not discouraged either, but expressed the same appreciation for her "play" with reading and writing as I have in other areas, like arts and crafts, or creative play.

Anyway, Jolene, your description was very eloquent and makes sense to me. It's hard (but I think you did it) to frame it in a way that also values and appreciates "precocious" (and please know I also don't find any of the terms suitable) children - there are children that will be reading & writing ahead of the curve no matter what parents do, and I think to actively discourage is just as bad as pushing too hard. I'm still learning how this would be handled in an Enki approach, and even in a Waldorf approach.