I posted all these on another board but would love all of your help, support and feedback on this.

03-18-2003
My dad was pretty abusive to all of us 5 kids. He whipped us with the belt at least twice a week and he would use the buckle when he was real mad. He would kick us or pull our hair when the belt was not handy. He would call us names. I was called spoiled rotten snot, brat, fat, etc...even ***** once. My earliest memory of dad whipping me was when I was 5. But I know it was much before that. My brother and I were fighting and my mom sent us to bed and said wait till dad gets home. We shared a room and waited for like 3 hours for him to get home from the restaurant that he ran. All of a sudden, I said, "Frank let's put on more pajamas and underwear so it won't hurt as much." So we put on a bunch of underwear and pajamas and when he came home he could see our fat butts and told us too pull down our pants which he made us do until we were 18 years old. He would say, "BEAR YOUR ASS!"I also remember when I was 4 and Frank was 3 he cried when he got a spanking and I remember dad saying he was faking it so he gave it to him harder and said I will give you something to cry about. I remember a babysitter asking me once if I was afraid of him and I said no cuz I was afraid what would happen if he knew I was afraid. I was petrified of him.

My biggest pain was that my mom was not there for us. She did not protect us, I have no memories of her holding me, brushing my hair, telling me I am good, pretty, loved etc. I have done my share of healing through therapy etc...and have forgiven my dad. He was even more abused by his mother and even though he was horrible to us at times, he still told me he loved me and I felt loved by him. And he had a beautiful conversion before he died. He sobbed and sobbed and asked for my forgiveness and told me how sorry he was and how much he loved me and how wonderful I was.

I still have a lot of anger towards my mom, as she is still emotionally unavailable for me and is rejecting of me as a woman. That is my biggest hurt from childhood, not feeling loved by her.

Anyway I have this beautiful, perfect precious two year old that I was never gonna hit etc...and I have. I have slapped his hand about four times, slapped his thigh once, slapped him on the cheek once and squeezed his cheeks once. I feel bad about all of this. I have talked to friends. I don't know want to do this. But I have slipped into it. I thought about using a fake user name cuz I am afraid of being misunderstood but I decided that I would rather get help with this than have people like me.

He is two and he has tantrums and he hits me at least 40 times a day. He is wonderful and sweet too. I have never really hurt him of course but I have read all the SEARS stuff etc...that says it can only grow. So like what will I do when he is five?

This is the bottom line.

I do not want to hit Charlie or our new baby on the way and no matter what they will grow up knowing they are loved by their mommy and daddy.

03-19-2003
In my heart of hearts I believe my mother was mistreated but I have such a hard timing finding compassion for her but I will work on it.

03-19-2003
I have done a lot of therapy and did Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families for 8 years. I worked on loving and reparenting my inner child.

I learned slogans
Hurt People Hurt People
We are all Victims of Victims
As children we are victims, as adults we are volunteers

I have worked a lot on my own hurt so that I don't hurt. And that is why I choose to come out of the closet and share more of my hurt and struggle so I can come clean.

But today was a hard day. I don't mean like I wanted to hit him. I just felt really down and not like a good mom. He was so cute yesterday the sun was shining etc. Today was cloudy with war in the air.

We went to a local coffee shop to celebrate his birthday with 6 other mama's at a kid friendly coffee shop and a huge play area. He had a horrible temper tantrum over a monster MM cookie. It lasted 35 minutes. The owner asked us all to leave. He said it was distracting other people in the place. He said, "I know it is hard to be a stay at home mom but this is not the place to come when your child is acting out. Anyway it was horrible. I sobbed came home and tried to get a grip. I just felt like I am so unlovable. Don't know why I felt that way.

We had a fun night. We went to a Japanese steak house and it was so great. Charlie got lots of attention from the people we sat with. He loved watching the chef cook in front of us. They gave me a huge fried ice cream sundae and they took a Polaroid that turned out great!! And then he konked out on the way home so he is sleeping and I can relax a bit. But DH has the war on, so depressing it started today!!! But we had fun tonite and I am going to bed happy. And he is my sunshine!!

03-27-2003
He woke up an hour early today. Crabby!!! He weaned about 8 days ago and I sometimes think his crabbiness etc. is related to weaning. Anyway he hit me like 30 times this morning and finally I took his hand and made him hit himself in the face. And then he go madder and hit me more, more more. So finally I slapped him. Now I feel like ****. It did not do any good. I am having a bad bad day and ashamed to report this.

04-03-2003
I have been diving into Sears etc. reading Chapter 12, The Discipline Book. I also ordered Mindful Parenting.

I have read in Sears that you can tell if a kid is afraid of you when you raise your hand and the duck. I can guarantee that is not the case with Charlie and that makes me grateful. And I never want it to come to that.

I have realized that the only time I have touched him is when he has kicked or hit me repeatedly.

So I have done a couple mommy go bye bye for a minute if you hit me again and left the room. He does cry and hate it but it seems to work. Is that okay?

The other thing that I am realizing is maybe I do not give him enough discipline, structure, guidelines, limits and that really bums me out. I have been pretty laid back and now am wondering if I am living with some consequences. Is it too late??

04-04-2003
Today I was carrying him out of music class and he grabbed two fist fulls of my hair real near my scalp and was pulling like crazy. I kept screaming stop and then he grabbed my glasses and threw them in the street. I was mad but not tempted to hit and it hurt my scalp really bad. And it bummed me out and then I remembered I am not suppose to yell. I am to remain calm. Goll this is can be so hard.

And realize this little guy is great and I have many wonderful days.

04-15-2003
When I said touch I meant in a not good way. We cuddle, co-sleep, tickle, nestle, spoon, rub, cradle all the time!!!

04-17-2003
Yesterday while putting Charlie in the cart at Whole Foods, he bit me really hard on the shoulder. I have a bruise and a scab. It was the worse bite I have ever gotten from him and he really has not bitten me for quite awhile. I am really bummed about it. And I put him down in the middle of the cart quite quickly as he screamed bloody murder. It seemed like 7 ladies were staring at me like I was a bad mom. I went to the produce section and started crying and Charlie kept asking what happened mama? Pretty hard day. I don't know if it was the right thing to do but I made a production out of it when I showed DH and my friend who came over last night in front of Charlie and DH went to kiss my owie and Charlie insisted no I kiss and he kissed it before we went to bed. I hope that is not shaming or anything. We reminded him no bite only kiss and hugs a few times also. Anyone have any pointers, I mean tips for me???

05-04-2003
Tonight Charlie hit me, kicked me and tried to bite me probably 80 times. I got out the lavender and massaged him and even let him massage my pregnant tummy and it did mellow him a bit. He only slept an hour today due to the May Day parade. And usually naps nearly 3 hours. I am pretty bummed at present cuz he has been great lately and we had so much fun at the Cinco de Mayo Festival yesterday and now I am feeling a setback. I feel a struggle with the AP Gentle Discipline as my dad was quite physical or should I say violent with us kids and I regret to say that I have slapped his hand etc. a few times but have really been trying to be clean of any physical stuff with him. Sometimes I feel that DH is too firm with him when he grabs his hand when Charlie is hitting etc...it just looks harsh to me. This is all so hard and I feel like a failure tonight cuz he was so wild. Trust me he is the cutest sweetest little guy.

05-12-2003
okay i am quite bummed. I have not hit him in 46 days or nearly 7 weeks and today he was sitting by me and knocked me hard in the mouth was this musical wooden instrument. I said, "Charlie do not hit mama!" And I went to take it away and he hit me on the shoulder with the drum stick he had and I took the drum stick and slapped him on the cheek. He started crying and did the lower lip quiver. I started crying and felt like crap. I told him over and over I was sorry and mommy should not hit Charlie. He kept saying mommy I am sorry, I will put away my instruments. I felt so bad. Anway we went for a walk, it was sunny, we had fun, we looked at flowers and birds and cats. And he was cute and happy and we got him new sunglasses. I just feel like I ruined my 7 weeks. A friend recommended I read, Ghosts in the Nursery. I think I will get it. I am reading Mindful Parenting.

I am so bummed about this cuz I don't want to do this at all. And I realize I want to hit when he hits me. I never ever stood up to my dad when he hit me etc. accept for when I was 19, I was home for Easter Vacation and we had some family friends over and we were talking about water skiing and I said I really like water skiing and my dad in front of this whole family including a boy my age said, "What did it take to get you up? An oceanlineer?" Cuz I have always been so heavy and by the way he was very heavy. I didn't say anything. Anyway after they left I was in the bathroom crying and I heard my brothers and sisters laughing about the oceanliner comment. (they were all thin) And I walked out and told them to all shut up. My dad came out and said, "What is going on?" And I went off on him. I said, "It is all because of you, you fxxxx son of a bxxxx. I hate you so much." Anyway everything from all those years came out and I kept yelling at him and he was kicking me and hitting me in the face and my brothers were holding him back and my mom and sisters were telling me to shut up and I couldn't. To this day I do not regret it. I think I needed to get it out. Anyway a few months later my dad basically had a conversion and called me crying, telling me how sorry he was, telling me he loved me, asking me for forgiveness, telling me how bad of a dad he was. Anyway I felt so good and close to him and forgave him and went to see him once and he played with my hair which he had never done before and told me so many good things about me. Anyway he died 6 weeks later and made me a tape before he died and this was on it.

I want you to know how much
I really love you
and how much I care for you.
You are a beautiful girl
and you have
a lot going for you and
someday you will find a man
that you really love and
I know you’ll raise a beautiful family.
I know that your life will be happy and long and
you will have children and grandchildren.
I’ll never forget when you were little and
how lovable you were.
You were probably one of the most
beautiful babies ever born.
I remember how we use to
sing Bali Hi and
you’d dance for us and
I’d throw little pillows at you
and knock you down. And you’d just laugh and
give me the pillow and
we’d do it over and over again.
I love you now and
I always will love you.
I hold nothing but love for you.
Hold me in your heart forever and
don’t forget me.
Love me honey and
tell your kids about me.
Make sure that you and your husband
take time to pray with them.
Pray for mom and
bring your children to see her lots.
You’ll be blessed with many things in your life.
I know that you have nothing
but good to give so give.


I played the tape at our grooms dinner.

Anyway i know this is all so heavy but I wonder if I hit back cuz of feeling like I could not defend myself with my dad. Don't know.

Anyway I need prayers and support.

05-18-2003
OMG last night Charlie bit my stomach right where the fat fold starts at the bottom. I swore. I can't believe it. It hurt so bad. I cried too cuz he has not bit me in 5 weeks. And after he did that he said, "Mama I need food." Actually that is what he said to me 10 minutes before he bit me. And Jerry was sweeping the sidewalk. So we went and got Thai curry tofu and peapods and he ate tons and was happy. Should I listen to him for now?????

07-07-2003
I have not wanted to post this cuz I want to be perfect but about a week ago, Charlie pulled my hair so hard he got a clump out. So I pulled his hair back, not real hard but he cried. I hate how I still react.

Mama, I could have written this post about my parents! My son isn't as old as yours, so I haven't had some of the issues you have had with him. I have however, felt "out of control" with him on a couple of occasions (not to the point where I have gotten physical, other than a light hand tap when he hurt me). My dad wasn't quite as extreme as yours either, but it was still pretty bad. My mom put my dad in the enforcer role as well, and made us even more afraid of him. We never ever went to play with friends or anywhere, because my mom would say to ask dad, and we would be so scared to that we would just not go. You never knew what would set him off. He also came from a bad home life-- his dad was an alcoholic and beat the crap outta them whenever he felt like it. From some of the stuff I have read, he is a textbook case of the child of a violent alcoholic. My dad terrified us as children, but he loved us too. My mom stayed at home with us, but was always emotionally unavaliable. She was also the child of an alcoholic, but one on the opposite end of the spectrum-- not violent at all. I never felt like my mom loved me, or was avaliable emotionally to me-- heck I still don't, and I a 27 years old. My dad and I also had a falling out that brought everything in the past to a head-- all the hurt and fear from childhood just came bubbling out. That was our last big fight, and it was when I got married 5.5 years ago. He has never shown anything but love towards Liam, and I am glad he has let go of his demons enough to be a good grandfather--- it makes me able to love him more.

I can't talk more now-- Liam is all ove rme, but I will try and add more later--- it can be stopped though mama-- the cycle can end!
heather

Okay momma - you've got a lot of stuff going on here and I think most of all you need to spend some serious time in prayer and ask the Lord to help you overcome some generational bondage. If you want more advice in this area, I can point you in some good directions, but your gonna have to PM me on this cause I don't like to give unsolicited advice in the spiritual areas.

Okay, on to more practical stuff.

Your son is 2, you say you've been permissive in the past and now you are seeing lots of bad behavior because of it. Know that you are like 99% of most parents in this!

Understand that discipline is not just spanking or punishment. Understand that discipline is discipling our children - that is guiding and teaching. I'm not anti-punishment - there are lots of consequences out there that do not include spanking. Also, understand that hitting, slapping etc are not spanking - they are abuse. What your father did was not spanking, it was abuse. There are lots of things you can do for consequences that are not spanking:

whining for something - don't give it to them

tantrums - walk away, 'mommy time out' Put them on their bed or in the bathroom and say "when you calm down you can come out"

hair pulling/biting/hitting - say, "no that hurts" and then put the child down or stand up and move away - basically, reject their company for a moment. Or, say "if you can't play nicely with momma, you need to play alone in your room for 3 minutes" Perhaps if you were in the middle of something fun that comes to an end because he hurt you.

BTW - I would not tolerate my child hitting me ever. There are serious consequences for hurting mamma (because I believe that a 2 yr olds hitting leads to an older child's disrespect - nip it in the bud)

I think that grabbing their hand and physically preventing the hit while you say very firmly "no, you can't hit me" is very appropriate.

Now, the flip side is you need to disciple him into the proper behavior. You talk about how we touch gently, only kisses etc. You become proactive by anticipating events and teaching what to do. For instance - you can practice him coming right away when you call his name. You make a game of it.

Another fun game is the yes momma game. I have my kids do some silly things interspersed with some real chores and have them practice saying "yes, momma" and going to do it right away:
"Come give me a hug" "yes, momma"; "go into the kitchen" "yes momma"; "put that toy in the bag" "yes, momma" It teaches them to respond to your quiet requests.

These things can be done with a toddler -

I HTH - Melinda

I already wrote most of this to you, but I think it's appropriate to put it on the boards, too, so others can see it and comment on it if they wish. ;)

I have a friend who does not spank, hit, slap, etc...that's just not an option in her household. Her ds is 4 now, but when he was 2 he would have temper tantrums and would pull her hair, etc...

For the tantrums, she often would hold him tight until he calmed down. I'm not sure how often or how long she did this.

One time when he pulled her hair, she pulled back, out of an automatic response (she does not condone that kind of "discipline!"). He was so upset and kept saying "Mama hurt ____." She felt horrible as she had never done anything to intentionally hurt her child before. She asked him to forgive her and talked about why hair pulling is wrong (no matter who does it). He got over it quickly; I'm not sure she did.

I guess what I'm saying in sharing this is that all mamas make mistakes. You have a lot of baggage from your childhood to work out, too.

I don't believe my parents were ever abusive to me; but they spanked me and my brother a lot until they learned that it wasn't the most effective way to discipline (my younger siblings got spanked, but not very often). I do not plan on spanking at all. First of all, because I don't want to make the mistake my parents did and start spanking too much. Secondly, I'm a very hands-on person--I'm afraid if I open the door to that kind of punishment, it will keep widening and I'll find myself slapping and hitting, too. Does that make sense? I worry about this, though, as our new little one is due soon.

Please, talk to someone who can help you in person (you mentioned before that you've seen counselors--have you brought this up with them?) I know there are women on here who want to help and will offer lots of help, but having someone irl can be a wonderful thing.

I think it's great that you are spotting things about yourself that you don't like and want to change. But you're not just sitting there pointing that stuff out--you are trying to change those things by asking for help. Not many people are very good at asking for help.

Keep us updated on how things are going. We'll be praying for you/ sending you good vibes.

Please feel free to pm me whenever you want.
Blessings,
Jeni

OMG mama, there is so much going on for you right now! First, let me say that you show remarkable strength coming from the history you describe. The very fact that you are seeking other options to raising your children speaks volumes about you!!! I'm very hopeful when I hear how dedicated you are to nonviolent parenting, as I greatly value safety for all family members.

Secondly - when we are under threat or attack, our natural instinct is fight or flight. It's no small wonder that you have the urge to strike back when being hit, bit, pulled hair etc. What you do with that urge is a different story, as you know.

This is a developmental stage that children go through, but it sounds to me that your little guy is on the more extreme side of things. There could be several things playing into this. One of the first things I thought of was food allergies. I have seen absolutely darling, sweet and lovable children turn into raging, violent and unrecognizable beings simply by ingesting an allergen. My suggestion is to begin monitoring his diet and the resultant behavior you see manifesting. He also may be a more "sensitive" child, meaning that he is highly impacted by stimulus (light, sound, activity etc). Kids with this issue are more reactive, and his behavior may be coming from an over-stimulated little body.

Reading Everyday Blessings may be helpful, but it is more about a philosophy than practical advice. I highly recommend "Nonviolent Communication" (NVC), "Parent Effectiveness Training" AND "Raising Your Spirited Child" for more practical things you can implement. NVC is actually a book I recommend to EVERYONE, not just parents and not just parents who are struggling with certain behaviors. It has been a life-changing paradigm shift for me, and impacted my parenting, my relationships...my very being.

More later, my computer is acting up.

Mama, you can do this. Violence begets violence...and I am sorry but I do not believe one can *choose* to spank and be ok with hitting, and turn around and be upset if their little ones hit them back. I know you want to change, and are not wanting to choose to spank, and I am so glad! I truly believe spanking is another form of hitting/slapping, and does encourage it right back, or teaches the child with shame and fear. Not what I want, and sounds like not what you want either. If you teach your child with natural consequences he learns not to do the offending behavior for the right reasons.

The first thing I am thinking reading your post is that you may be able to ward off some of his tantrums and anger issues....I wonder about his eating, sleep, etc. Is he getting enough? It can really help to make sure he eats well, and often....they often ignore hunger til they get grouchy and irritated from it.....Try and offer snacks more often, and pay attention to what you offer.....sugar, processed foods, etc., like with adults, can lead to crashing later, wiredness, etc. Sleep.....does he get enough? Make sure he does, even if it means you and he nap together, or you put on a video in your darkened room and lay with him, etc. Activity....is he getting enough? Playtime outside? Burning off energy? Time alone with Dad, doing things he likes to do, etc. These things CAN and DO make a difference, and for some kids it makes a HUGE difference in their attitudes and behavior! I think there is a huge difference in a toddler who throws a fit in a store because he wants something, over a toddler throwing a fit in a store cause he is tired or hungry and wants something.....we all get short and crabby and irritated when tired, hungry, etc. Make sure you pay attention to that, and try and ward off any adding to the issues with his being hungry (feed before he is truly hungry), tired (get plenty of sleep, you and him!), etc. I also think age plays a huge role. A toddler of 1 or 2 does not understand why he can have something in the store yesterday but not now. He just does not "get" it, and we cannot expect him to. For that age, you need to try to prevent the problems......things like shopping alone, bringing toys for him to play with, letting him hold books from the store while you shop, bringing snacks....etc. Distraction. If he was, say 4 or 5, and was tossing a fit and such, I'd recommend taking him to the car right away...letting him know it was not ok to scream and to yell in the store, and that you hear that he is angry and really wants that toy car or cereal, but that you are not buying it, and since he cannot act appropriately, you need to leave the store. And do it. Yes, it's a hassle, and yes, you lose too. But that's what parenting is, it's usually the better way that's the hard way for us too. If Dad is with you, have one of you take him out to the car to wait while the other shops, or take him home and go shopping alone, explaining that sorry, he cannot come as he did not behave last time......It teaches the best lesson......you need to behave in the store not because I want you to, or because otherwise you will be spanked....but because everyone needs to behave in the store and why. Again, at any age pay attention to sleep and hunger.....Even my 12 year old cannot admit she is a crab cause she is tired, and is often over-tired to the point where we will tell her she is being a crab and is likely tired, and she will toss a fit about that til we demand she get the sleep she needs, help her with that, and she later admits she was tired and was not thinking clearly because of it, hence not even being able to admit she was tired. (I get like that too, LOL)

I also think you need a break Mama....you have a high needs child, and you need to nurture yourself too. Submerse yourself in positive support......people reminding you what a great job you are doing, and how wonderful it is that though the non-violent road may *seem* harder right now, it's the one with no future regrets or side effects.......and please, please take care of you! Get out, take baths, drink tea, order in on those hard days, rely on others for help and support, etc. You can do this......They say parenting is the hardest job in the world, and it's true!

One more thought....high needs kids tend to need schedules..and I do NOT mean rigid ones....but more what to expect ones. Try and set up your day so that there are no suprises, leave time to get ready without rushing, warn him ahead of time when you are leaving the store/house, etc. Try and make him feel secure and comfortable.

Have you read "Raising Your Spirited Child"? I'd recommend it! That and "The Difficult Child"...and of course, William Sears books, like "Parenting Your High Needs Baby and Child".........

((HUGS)) Mama....it took a LOT to come and admit you have a problem you need help with.....I truly admire that, and know you have made the first, very important and hardest step in changing.....and remind yourself of that Mama, when you are angry and losing control, remind yourself you are not going to hit, tell yourself it is NOT an option.....seek others, even step away and take a time-out to cool down and think....it IS ok to walk away from him and tell him you are hurt/angry/aggravated and need time alone or a time out. It also shows a great lesson to him, one he will pick up on and soon be able to use for himself!

And please, please PM or e-mail me **anytime** if you need support, or ideas, or just to vent and scream and get it out!!!!! (((HUGS)))

You have received many wonderful suggestions. Dancing Giraffe always writes so eloquently.

I am a mama who parents way outside the norm. I am part continuum concept (which I believe encompasses attachment parenting), part taking children seriously, and a great deal of nonviolent communication. I feel I have really found my niche YET I am always ever-learning. Trying to improve. I certainly do not have all of the answers.

After a long time alone in the house, I found a wonderful group of women who I fit in with. And better yet, they are always striving to improve as well. And I feel normal. They inspire me to new heights! When I am with them, I am a better parent. The more time I spend with them, the better parent I become. It is one thing to read about it in a book, but seeing good parenting in action is worth a million times more.

My point (and I don't know if you already are or not) is to find a group of women with whom you really resonate with. The real life support is so much more than a forum can give you.

I think that is premier advice.

I was also going to ask if you suspect there may be anything awry with your sweet one. He does seem really sensitive to something. Meaning something is setting him off. Food, atmosphere, or inablility to perceive or understand something going on. There are lots of elimination diets you can checkout.

It's very normal for two yo to be frustrated and throw tantrums. Very normal. They are going through a stage where they are more aware of their feelings yet do not know how to intrepret them or express them. This was where I started teaching feelings. I started off using the song If You're Happy adn you know it... I went through happy with a huge smile on my face, angry- stomp the floor, sad go wah wah with my hands over my eyes like I am crying, frustrated-making a frustrated face, joyful clapping my hands in the air above my head.

And we talked often about what we were feeling all day. Right now I feel happy, angry (and I would stomp the floor so he knew this was an acceptable way of letting out the energy flooding his system).

I have a friend who is the best mom I have ever met. Yesterday was a park day and her son was very tired and confused. He started hitting her. She continued her attempts to hug him, distract him, help him figure out his feelings and she even let him hit her. She came up to us when he was calm and told us she thought he was hitting her because he knew it wasn't okay to hit other people and he knew she was a safe person to let his feelings out on.

I am sure several people are freaking out reading that but just take a moment to enjoy the beauty that her son knows she is a safe person to get his feelings out with. No, he won't forever hit her, nor will she allow it. He is still small though and still learning about how to express his feelings.

I personally don't believe in controlling children. I think a great deal of the disciplines of today, though they no longer contain spanking, are still centered around controlling. You just cannot control another person. How would you feel if your televisions was taken away because you didn't finish your meal or didn't make your bed. And with children, you are only going to be able to control them for so long before the realize that they do not have to listen to you. I don't want that kind of strain on my relationship to my children. Yes, there are boundaries I set for certain things, but for the most part they guide their own lives and learning.

For me, it is not okay to hit or bite me. If you try I will run (flight) away until I know you are safe to be around. I don't think that is anything to be afraid of. If he was confronted by someone when he was older, would you want him to first try and talk the opponent to a calm place and if that didn't work, and depending on the situation, would you want him to walk away?

You are your children first and most important teacher. Be the person you want them to be. Children learn what they live. (my favorite poem)

There was a time when I was newly single, living on my own with two small children (age 2 and 3), not much family support and no friend support. I resorted to spanking. I spanked for two months I think before I got it together. It was difficult. Everyday I would wake up and say no hitting today and everyday I would go to bed in tears. It wasn't until I told myself that spanking was NOT an option that I stopped.

But sadly it is too late. I don't know if it is all me because their father has been abusive. But they do cower when I do that test. <cry> But I wonder if that test is also skewed in the idea that the older the child the better they know that a raised hand might hurt them. From tv, friends, anything.

I wonder where he learned the hitting. You don't have to answer that, but perhaps think about where it might be coming from and either eliminate it or figure out how to explain to him what may be going on.

Keeping children's needs taken care of is also very important. Children get hungry often and quickly and they react to drop in sugar levels much more quicly than adults do. It is only as an adult that I taught my body how to skip breakfast. I would ask him if he is hungry or offer him food every two to three hours and take snacks with you everywhere.

And I think that weaning is a very stressful thing. It's the death of a certain relationship you two had together. And death is one of the biggest stresses. I am not saying to start nursing him again, but I wonder if you have noticed or suspected any behavior related to this event.

Here is a great article that someone on another board referred me to.

http://parentleaders.org/articles/helping-children-with-aggression.html

Herc both of my dad's parents were alchoholics. My dads mom was the abuser. My dad did not drink but gambled which really affected his temper.

I just don't believe in time outs. I believe in mommy go away or not hold Charlie when he hits etc...but I am not into time outs. Counting is one thing that seems to has worked well. And I like a couple of your ideas about if you are happy and you know it or angry and you know it....And we do the only hugs and kisses in this house etc. And no hit, no push, no kick, no bite etc......

He sleeps quite well, he has a 3 3/4 hour nap yesterday. We co-sleep by the way, so he gets lotsa cuddles and daddy and him are buds. They take swimming together, go on bike rides etc. A friend of mine has really helped me by making sure Charlie gets lots of protein and I really watch the sugars. It does seem to help and now that we are completely weaned, May 8. Nursing has been replaced by snuggling which he will say mama, hold me I need you. He is so so cute and sweet. His temper stuff seems to really have gotten better. And he rarely hits me anymore etc. I do worry though when new baby arrives.

And by the way I am part of two attachment parenting groups and spend a lot of time with these mamas on other days. I surround myself with these type of women and tell them what I am working on and let them know when I screw up. I believe by being open one can change and that is why I have come out of the closet with this struggle.

Sheri I am sorry that you have struggled with this too and good for you in making a change.

Thanks everyone again for your help, support and time. love kj

I know where you're coming from. My mother was physically, verbally and emotionally abusive. That was my example in the area of discipline. However, it hasn't been one I followed.
I guess I think of it this way: I was born into this world innocent. I was pure, unblemished. As a teeny little kid, I had good intentions. I mean, how much malice can a toddler have? It's not like they sit around and think of ways to hurt or anger others. Their reactions are completely REACTIVE. They're literally too little to know better. I've talked to my mother about my childhood and she's told me that she thought I was so smart that I was crying to manipulate her. She actually thought that as a 4 yr. old, I was plotting to get my way so I faked tears.
I won't claim to be perfect. It's been difficult for me not to resort to the old stuff my mom did to me but I can say this -- I've never struck my children. I'm not saying I'm better than you. Just that I'm very proud of myself. I've broken the cycle of violence. I've learned and am practicing a better, safer, more effective form of discipline. Whenever I feel angry and want to lash out I think to myself, "NO! I am NOT her!" and more importantly, I think of my little ones' innocence and know that I don't want them to feel like I did as a child. I don't want them to be afraid of Mommy or to hide accidents and mistakes for fear of being humiliated and beaten. They are innocent and they depend on me to provide basics (food, shelter) and deeper needs like love, security and safety. That's the Mommy I want to be. Come to me when you're scared or hurt. I won't belittle you. I will protect you. I'm here to care for you. That's what I signed up for as a parent.
Maybe it would help you to think of it this way: Everytime you respond to your son in a non-violent way, you're modeling the way you want him to be, helping him to feel safe and protected AND breaking the cycle of violence. It takes self-control to restrain yourself. By stopping, taking a deep breath and holding back, YOU are showing more power over the situation than an abusive parent. You can show the proverbial "THEM" that you're better than that. YOU CAN DO IT! You can find alternatives to physical punishment. Good for your son but also YAY FOR YOU!
And you CAN do it. After all, you don't smack your DH when you feel angry w/ him, right? You don't hit your friends or the grocery store cashier w/ a bad attitude, right? Does your DS deserve any less respect? Is it okay to respond to him physically just b/c he's smaller and as a child, hasn't quite mastered self-control?
We have a few simple rules in our house. We don't hit animals or people. Hands are for helping, not for hurting. When a tantrum does occur, I hold my toddler snugly and tell her that Mommy makes the rules (to keep her healthy and safe). If she hits me, I tell her, "No. That hurts Mommy." Then I ask, "Does Mommy hit you? Does Daddy hit you? Does Daddy hit Mommy? Does Mommy hit Daddy?" Answers aren't really necessary. I just do this to remind her that we are a family and we don't hurt each other.
It's interesting, my daughter was watching 'Lilo & Stitch' and there's a scene toward the end where the teenage girl smacks Stitch w/ a tree branch demanding to know where her sister is. My daughter saw this and gasped, "Oh-oh! We don't hit animals!" My first thought was, "Yikes! I've exposed her to violence!" and then I realized that at age 2, she'd already gotten the "no violence" message.
Even my own mother marveled, "I can't believe you've gotten her to mind without spanking her." You better believe it Mom! THAT was my finest hour! :)
BTW, I'm hope I don't sound self-righteous or preachy. My heart aches for you and I want you to feel good about your son and yourself. My life isn't perfect but I do have this discipline thing down pretty good. ;)

Breezesahm, I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart and with all of my being. I find your post beautiful. Thank you for opening up to us in this way.

This post really meets many needs of mine--community, sharing of knowledge, meaning, honesy, support. You see, my ex, whom I am still in and out with, grew up in an abusive home. As a result of this and other things, he has an anger management problem with depression and has been abusive, mostly verbally. I have never been able to express to him well enough that I know he is better than that and that he is capable of soaring higher. I hope you don't mind, I copied your post and sent it in an email to him.

I wonder if you (and Kathy and anyone else who has come from the situation) can answer some questions for me. I know I need to get myself into therapy or support group. I need to understand what I can expect from him. He has known about this problem for over a year and received help from a caring therapist for five months now. I expect near perfect behavior. He tells me I am asking too much. Am I?

Like I said I VOWED to not hit
I am devasted that I have
I have seen a few therapist
and did Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families for years
I have read tons of books
and am now reading Ghosts in the Nursery
and Mindful Parenting
I have had therapists say that I am a survivor
that I should have been removed from my home
that it is a miracle I am alive

Some people who grow up in homes like me
do the same as my dad, like he did
do what I do which is nothing in comparison to what my dad did
do what my brothers do, do not hit their kids but have gambling and drinking issues
do what many women do, marry an abuser to themselves or their children
or something else
or magically do it all perfect like it sounds Breezesahm is doing

It is my intention
It is a horrible thing to have to admit
but thank God it is not a bigger problem
I still need help

and I need to say now that this past week he was pulling my hair so hard. he had a hunk of hair and kept pulling pulling pulling and I could not loosen his grip so I slapped his hand, he cried. I felt terrible. I hope I never do this. I feel terrible when I do. But I get to that point where he is hurting me and I do this. If I get judged here and hated that is okay, cuz hopefully mamas will still be here who can help me and guide me as I work on this. Thank you.

I want to apologize. I'm so sorry. I feel horrible about the way I've presented myself. :( I never meant to give the impression that I am perfect or magical. I meant to provide a listening ear and some helpful feedback. My post had the reverse effect -- completely the opposite of what I intended. I should have minded my own business.

You're a loving mother and you're doing your best. Good luck in your endeavors.

Again, I'm truly sorry.

i do not think you owe an apology

but thanks

i have not posted here in awhile. had my baby. beautiful angelyn. she is about 8 1/2 weeks.

anyway charlie has been great with her and hard with us, lots of temper tantrums...etc...i am trying and it is so hard. i am tired, etc...

also I have not been perfect. I can't remember exactly but one night he ran from us in a parking lot and we did give him a teeny spanking on the butt

i have been threatening spankings now that he knows the word and i don't want to do that

i cannot say how much he kicks, it is driving us nuts especially with diaper changes and in bed, we all sleep together....lovely family bed

anyway i think i have said this before but maybe not on this thread but dh and i struggle too as a couple, we argue, call each other names at times...god we are the worst parents...

anyway here is what happened last night..

dh and i were arguing. I was crying and charlie kept saying, mommy teach me. i could not understand what he was saying and finally realized it was teach me...and i said teach you what

and he said....

teach me to be happy!!!!

oh my gosh that is what i need to do.

i want to ask if anyone can PM me other parenting boards were i can get support for my dh and me struggles. I want to post somewhere where no one locally knows me cuz i don't want to share the nitty gritty icky stuff with people who know him and me who may misunderstand or judge.. anyway if you have leads..please let me know

in the meantime let's work on this so we

can teach them to be happy.

Kaje,
I want to hug you for how hard you are trying. We do not share the same struggles but I know this is incredibly difficult.

One thing that came to me as I read your posts. One thing that our children need from us more than anything else is to be able to trust us. That means that they need to trust that what we say is true and that what we do is best. When you do one thing and then appologize and retract it your child will get confused about being able to trust you.

Have you planned how you will treat your son when he does these things or do you wait till the moment to make a decision about how to deal with it? When he pulls your hair, do you cry and let him know that it hurts you and makes you upset?

I personally think that sticking to one parenting philosophy is almost as important as which philosophy you choose. One thing that made life with your father so scary was that you never knew what would set him off. If you had known you wouldn't have been so scared because you could have simply avoided those behaviours to avoid the punishment or been prepared for exactly what would happen if you transgressed. I think your son may not know how to behave. You are threatening spanking but then not spanking him. Do you mean what you say or not?

Sometimes it is better to do the outrageous thing we threaten. I do recomend taking hitting out of your threats, however right now your son is trained that the ultimate treat is a spanking so he may not mind with that taken off the table, at first. It will be hard work to teach him another way to behave. Shifting the paradigm of a relationship is extremely difficult no matter what age the people in it are.

I worked with a woman who had teenage sons and a great parenting style although even she messed up. One day she told her son that if he did whatever he was doing one more time she would move his room to the basement. Well in typical teenage style he did that thing one more time. She was heartbroken about moving him and regretted the threat as soon as she said it. They had just finished a new room for him that he was very excited about, but she knew that if her threats were empty she would lose her childs trust. She did move him to the basement (for about a month if I recall) and later let him move into his new room. Now his trust was intact, his mother meant what she said, and he got his lovely new room. I think this is a good lesson in doing what you say and minding that you are willing to do what you threaten.

I highly recomend that you sit down with your DH and brainstorm some ways to respond to your son's behaivor. Choose the most typical ones at first, hitting, biting, hair pulling. Choose consequences that you can carry through with and then be willing to do it no matter what it may cost you. (not getting the shoping done, going home from a play date, etc). I do agree that it sounds like your son may be extra sensitive so all the more reason to remove him from situations that over stimulate him and make him unable to behave appropriately.

I will be praying for you. I am getting ready to have my first child (my ideas come from working with children and my training as a Montessori teacher) and am planning to parent differently than my parents did and I worry about my intentions and my actions not matching up. I discovered just how difficult it was to change when I first became a teacher and I know that having my own child will be another challenge. Thankfully, like you, I have like minded friends who are parents to share with and learn from.

you are so sweet. thank you for all your advice.

I have one child who does not listen to my words of reason, caring and etc. and so help me I have had spanking cross my mind many a time! I have to really step back from the emotions of despair at such times and strategize to the best of my abilities!

Tantrums.....I either decide to give the item wanted because I realize I am being too limiting for my own reasons OR to take my child away from the place where it is happening. I tell my child "You don't stop screaming and we will leave now and go home" Then I follow thru with it. He has learned that I am not being threatening but factual.

Think ahead to what could happen in a situation and have a clear and fair plan.

:)

I am so moved by your struggle as it is similar to mine. I want to say that you are in a really rough transition phase yourself, and anytime you can give yourself and your son more time, things might run more smoothly. I could reccommend more books, but your plate sounds full. Really, when my DS is totally outside acceptable behavior, time is always the solution. I have to decide over and over that what I really want is a pleasant day. Errands don't have to be run as much as I have to never hit my children again. The phone call that I had to make, oh well, I lost that too. I am not a martyr, it all gets done, but I slow WAY down when DS or DD seem "crazy" for lack of a better term. We have whole weeks in which we do not get in the car. I am always amazed at how much easier my entire life is when my children only leave the house when they want to. I can convince them they want to if it's important, but otherwise, we stay home, no shoes, naked if that's the tone of the day. I'll say it again and again, what helps me not spank is time. If I am in a hurry, I can feel the anger building before anyone has even crossed me, so I really try to not be in a hurry.

Sitting here reading and i have to say that you are a mom and moms make mistakes... You are a human...

started a new thread
would love your help mamas!

http://www.amitymama.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=847847#post847847