He's almost a year old, his name is Winston. He has whooping cough and is in the hospital for a second time. When they try to put him down to sleep, he stops breathing. This is my cousins' little boy and she does not vaccinate. Both of her boys got it, but Winston is obviously having a much harder time with it. This has gone through my entire extended family up north and we're headed up there on Friday, so I could also use some prayers of protection for my little ones. I do vaccinate, but you just never know...especially since Caleb has only had one set of shots. I see Pertussis coming back really bad again...both my sister and I got it when we were young and it was awful. We almost lost one of my cousins during that year to it. (Lots of asthma runs in my family, which made it extremely bad for many of us) Anyway, my mom called me in tears today and told me to pray for him, so I thought I'd pass it on to the mamas here. When your child is having difficulty breathing, it's one of the most frightening things a mama has to deal with. Pray for this little boy and his family. I will update when I get more news on him.
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Sandy, Mom to Anthony (6), Samantha (4), Benjamin (3) and our newest addition, Caleb (born 2/26/08)
Please please please tell them to start doing Vitamin C saturation. Seriously. It works and it works fast. They can do it intravenously in the hospital but they will have to demand it. If they won't, then just get it in him somehow. It will turn him around so fast. It kills pertussis bacteria and neutralizes the toxin in his body. My nieces and nephew and my daughter all had it bad..my little niece being the worst of course. You can google this and read about it, but it is seriously the one thing that can turn little ones around very very quickly. Saturation means as much Vitamin C as the body can handle before loose stools. That is THE ONLY side effect of having mega doses of vit. c. There is an article I will get a link to asap, but I wanted to get this on here quickly. Please call and tell them to try it...it kept my 4 month old from getting it. Do it to your kids too...keep them on saturation the whole time you are there, just in case and even when you back for a while. You will be surprised at how much Vit. C the body needs when fighting something.
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Someone's getting BIG!!
Shilowe, getting my Master's in Pscyhology online, homeschooling, SAHM to Rayne Alexandra and Quinlan Eygji and loving wife to Dave.
WOW. Prayers are going up and I hope you can get the message above. Amity mamas are so knowledgable and I'm so thankful for this site so that we can help people out like this when they need help. Prayers prayers prayers. I can't imagine what it would be like.
__________________ Claire,
(Mama to 2 boys, ages 5 & 3, Montessori Preschool Teacher, Mona Vie Distributor, etc.)
We know that antibiotics taken during pregnancy, makes a child more susceptible to asthma. That's published in the medical literature.
We know that tooth decay is related to immune function. That is why someone with tetanus can suddenly get large cavities. WE know that kids who take antibiotics when a tooth is forming will end up with crumbly molars that just disintegrate.
There is so much that we know that antibiotics CAN do, but we cannot answer the questions as to why to everything.
But here's my theory, though to understand it you'll have to understand endotoxin in a broader way than perhaps you do now.
Firstly, the human gut is filled with probiotics "whose" primary job is to keep a bacterial balance. Every baby has some gram negative bacteria, but bottle fed babies have 1,000 times more than breastfed, but even breastfed babies can have them if they have a low grade fever, and the mother is silly enough to give comp bottles, which result in a bacterial rating the same as completely formula fed babies.
Erthromycin is the greatest gut stripper out that there is, good, bad and otherwise. It creates hell and back again with me, and many kids who have had whooping cough even quite mildly, and been put on erythromycin have gone backwards fast.
The only way to help them out of it is to replace the probiotics and then whack in even more vitamin C and here's why.
They key to understanding why pertussis babies get worse on antibiotics is to understand gut flora. When the good gut flora is destroyed, it makes space for gram negative bacteria. The foremost gram negative bacteria in the gut E.coli, but its not the only one. We all have e.coli. It's a commensal, and in small amounts performs some useful functions. But that's where the good story ends. FIRST up, the erythromycin kills the gram negative bacteria in the gut as well as the good gut flora.
Oh yum. Trouble coming :bigeyes
The part of e.coli, and other gram negative bacteria that is endotoxin is the envelope. When the bacteria multiple normally, just a little bit drops off (imaging a hippo with extra skin taking a tuck...) and that is called "curlin". But when antibiotics kill e.coli, huge amounts of dead skin break up and become huge amounts of endotoxin, and has to be processed through the liver kuppfer cells. But when you use antibiotics which happen to kill gram negative bacteria, and the body gets a huge bolus dose of curlin, that puts the liver under huge pressure, and it slows down so much that curlin gets through into the bloodstream, becasue the liver can only cope with so much.
The child may also be carry gram negative strep in the throat and elsewhere, and if that is killed it too released its own endotoxin into the blood stream, but the quantities are nowhere near that which will be released by the gut. E.coli is usually the source of the majority of secondary endotoxin about to flood the liver.
The child will have some endocab (endotoxin core antibodies) in the blood, and so long as there are enough endocab to neutralise the curlin, relatively fine though there will be worsening symptoms while the body struggles to contain the mess. But if/when endocab runs out, things go even further backwards, and you're looking at apneoa and seizures.
The only other thing that neutralises curlin other than endocab is vitamin C, so if the baby is a sensible Mothering baby, whose mother knows to dose bigtime, then that will be no problem for the baby. The baby will be so full it will be okay BUT>>>>> after antibiotics a Mothering mother will need to radically increase vitamin C. But hopefully a Mothering mother won't be using antibiotics, will she??? :hammer
But these babies are babies of parents who think the sun shines outta the local pharmaceutical pushers and shovers incorporated, who will not, of course, know a thing about vitamin C.
So that poor baby is now struggling with endotoxin from the gut, not being trapped by the liver, leaking through and using up endocab and vitamin C in the blood, which up until then have PRIMARILY been used to neutralise the endotoxin from the pertussis bacteria coming from the bronchials.
We know that erythromycin doesn't touch the pertussis bacteria in the bronchials anyway, which is adhered to the cilia in the bronchials, so why blimmin well use it :angry. These pertussis bacteria are still putting out pertussis toxin into the mucus, which is still absorbed into the body, and the blood stream, which was previously neutralised by endocab, which is now trying to neutraliseting all the endotoxin released from the gut by the antibiotics.
Course, doctors haven't worked these things out for themselves, because they don't know how to figure these things out. Basic common sense and an understanding of well documented physiology. I have medical literature on this from Tissier in 1903!!! It's not like it hasn't been extensively studied, but see, its old, and anything not in the last five years, is stone aged medicine, right? Just like vitamin C is just a vitamin right? If the pharmaceutical companies don't tell doctors what to do, what would they know unless they fell over it themselves, or were hit over the head by realists?
Now you know why, for years, and years, and years, here, in my various incarnations I have PLEADED, shouted, ranted and raved and begged on bended knees for mothers to NEVER us antibiotics with pertussis.
Antibiotics do no good in pertussis, and can do harm in a baby whose diet is short of vitamin C. And of course, when these babies who are put on antibiotics with not enough vitamin C and running out of endocab, suddenly get worse and die, the doctors then say to the mothers "We did everything we could your baby died of whooping cough! (should have had them vaccinated silly !nevu mind the vaccine doesn't work...)".
Yet, the death certificate should read "this baby died because the doctor was ignorant about vitamin C, and also about how antibiotics can provoke endotoxemia from the gut and overwhelm the kuppfer cells and serum endocab.
CallmeIshmael gets that bit wrong. Antibiotic administration is never an indication of severity. It's always an indication of parental or paediatrician's distress, and I've seen babies go from antibiotics, to the oxygen tent to life support, not because the pertussis is super severe, but because babies suddenly have to deal with endotoxin from two sources, not one. But of course, because doctors don't KNOW how to "see" endotoxemia in totality, they will assume that its an increase in severity in the pertussis endotoxemia.
But... if they knew something about vitamin C, then none of any of that would have happened, babies wouldn't get so seriously ill that anyone would even think about antibiotics.
In my 24 years of being emotional nanny to mothers with pertussis babies, I've turned around so many so-called serious cases and converted them into averagely ill, and some of you here, know that, because you've learned how to do that at this board.
But doctors do not understand the basic concepts of endotoxic shock in its entirety, and don't realise what they are doing when they prescribe antibiotics and can't see that the antibiotics are creating a second source of endotoxic shock from the gut, which causes double trouble, and puts double strain on endocab ( endoab - endotoxin core antibody).
They have not learned, and for some pathological reason cannot learn to think.
Okay? Zat a rant enough?"
Righty then. Now you know why I didn't reply the first time, because I knew it would turn into a rant.
I absolutely agree with Shilowe, that baby needs IV vitamin C NOW. And I Hilary Butler (MT on MDC) she really, really knows her stuff. Thanks for posting her words of wisdom.
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Deborah
Mama to: Ginny 18, Sasha 10, and Toby 8
Separated at birth? Toby and his soccer coach, CO Rapids goalie, Justin Hughes.
I hope he is feeling better soon.
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