anyone have any words of wisdom to a 2 yr old that is having major sleeping issues? its not the same issues every night either. generally we curl up together before bed and chill with some milk, dora and a blanket but lately she is running screaming when the mere suggestion is made for bed. then if i can get her to settle with me she is poking, kicking, pinching me while she's "settling" which just irritates me. she will NOT go to bed awake. If i put her to bed groggy she pitches a huge fit and then we are stuck with having to make sure she is totally out before putting back in bed, because she will continue fitting. She does not cry out, we tried once, 2+ hrs of unconsolible child after that (that was weeks ago). last night she went to bed fine, sleeping before i put her down. at 2:45 she was up screaming and was wide awake for almost an hr. the second hr consisted of her falling into a light sleep and freaking out when put in her own bed or when i got up from it to pee. after 2.5 hrs we gave up and put her between us in bed. it still took her 15 minutes to calm down and stop kicking and pulling hair. she finally crashed but at that point it was almost 6 and i should have just gotten up. We don't do family bed often because dh is uncomfortable with it and doesn't really sleep if she's in bed with us. besides, she spends a lot of time kicking and moving around in her sleep, giving us brutal back "massages'. I went looking for calms forte today but none of our stores carry it. in the past i've had to resort to benadryl which i really don't like doing so we didn't do it last night. Friday night was bad too but i ended it with benadryl and waited it out after 1.5 hrs of fussing. I really don't know what the gig is. She doesn't get anything sugary before bed, no juice, just milk with vanilla (sugar free) added. I know that in the past we have noticed that if she doesn't have a decent dinner she will be up at 4 and will have trouble going back to sleep, even after milk. last night she had plenty to eat so i know it wasn't that and she had 8 oz of milk when she woke. She wears overnight diapers which she's been wearing for more than 6 months so i don't think its night time wetting. friday night we had strong winds so i thought that was the problem but last night was very quiet. Music doesn't work for her, nor does white noise. I am at my wits end about this. the night waking is about 2x a week and the going to bed fight is 6 out of 7 nights a week. I'm the only one home at night since dh works nights, except for weekends so he can only help 2 nights out of the week.
thanks for any suggestions. I don't post often here but i frequent the site often and have learned so much from you all.
but lately she is running screaming when the mere suggestion is made for bed.
Do you have a routine? My son responded MUCH better at that age when he knew ahead of time what was coming. Make a poster with pictures of what you do - Eat, brush teeth, read a book, sleep.
It sounds like she could really benefit from a routine.
Quote:
then if i can get her to settle with me she is poking, kicking, pinching me while she's "settling" which just irritates me. she will NOT go to bed awake. If i put her to bed groggy she pitches a huge fit and then we are stuck with having to make sure she is totally out before putting back in bed, because she will continue fitting.
Sounds completely normal to me, although I know it stinks. We STILL lay with our almost 5yo, although now it only takes him about 5 minutes to fall asleep. But I vividly remember those days.
One thing that helped us was to tell him stories about a little boy named Ryland (like him) who went on an adventure and then went home and went to sleep. I explained to him that sleep is like a cloud and your sleep needs you to be so still so it can come to you. I would whisper this to him while rubbing his back, whatever, and that would help him calm down.
It's a phase and it passes, Mama, I promise.
Another thing that really helps our son is a LOT of physical activity an hour or so before bedtime. DH wrestles with him on the bed and wears him out.
Oh, and get her outside FIRST thing in the morning and in the evening - it resets your circadian rhythms and helps you sleep better. The less my kids are outside, the worse they sleep.
Quote:
She does not cry out
Good for you!
Quote:
at 2:45 she was up screaming and was wide awake for almost an hr. the second hr consisted of her falling into a light sleep and freaking out when put in her own bed or when i got up from it to pee. after 2.5 hrs we gave up and put her between us in bed. it still took her 15 minutes to calm down and stop kicking and pulling hair. she finally crashed but at that point it was almost 6 and i should have just gotten up.
Have you considered food allergies? Dairy, wheat can cause sleep issues.
Quote:
I went looking for calms forte today but none of our stores carry it.
I can send you some, PM me.
Have you TRIED co-sleeping? Or at least putting her bed in your room? 2 is so young to be alone and I can imagine how scary it might be for her to wake up disoriented and for you not to be right there.
Remember that GOING to sleep is learned - babies aren't born just knowing how to calm and comfort themselves and go to sleep, they need us to show and teach them and it can take a long time.
MOST children (AP ones, anyway) NEED to be parented to sleep until they are 5 or so - your dd is completely normal but I do think there may be some issues with food, etc at play here. Maybe an elimination diet is in order.
Location: In Crochet Therapy... I can charge insurance for yarn, right?!
Posts: 3,484
At this point in my journey with my sleepless 32-month-old... pretty much all I have to offer is - because I'm also out of ideas. Those were some great ideas that sillymommy shared! I think the storytime and sleep like a cloud coming to you is just beautiful!
I will second the routine idea - also in the sense that bedtime routine may begin when your DD wakes up in the morning, LOL! DH and I talked through every phase of DS's days repeatedly and experimented until things started to improve. Activity levels, what and how much DS ate, when and how he napped, etc. were all things that we paid extreme attention to.
I would also wonder about food allergies. We have not found a food sensitivity to be a problem with DS, but having a number of food allergies myself and experience such a range of effects myself - I would also agree that you might try eliminating wheat and dairy or both for a time.
Along the way in our journey, it helped me to tune into the specific reasons why DS wouldn't go to sleep or stay asleep. Sometimes it was fear, sometimes it was not enough to eat, sometimes he just slept lightly and small noises would wake him up - and he'd cry hard out of frustration at being awake. Sometimes he just plain wanted to be awake and play! But it helped me to put my finger on the precise reason and work with that... until the reason changed, LOL.
We've done different things that have helped at certain times. For the last year, it has helped to make his bedroom an absolute sanctuary for sleep. No toys or other distracting things in the room; lighting, music, temperature, scents, etc. all geared towards sleepfulness. Lavender oil dripped on his pillow. Chamomile tea before bed. And then he got to have a few toys in bed with him. So his surroundings promoted sleep, while his few toys contented his desire to still play, until he just played himself out. Not my ideal, I know... but at least he stayed happy in his bed with his toys until sleep overcame him!
Some children literally fear sleep. Some children feel so overwhelmed by feeling sleepy that they fight with all they have. I have not read Elizabeth Pantley's No-Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers but I read her first book and it was completely wonderful - helped me out of so much anxiety! So I would think that her toddler version would be pretty helpful as well. I've been thinking about getting it here lately....
So anyways... got a little long there. Just consider it the ramblings of one tired mama to another....
And, LOL - while I'm typing this, my son is calling to me from his room, "I've got to tell you somethin' mommy!" Which is one of his last efforts to get me to come in and entertain him before he falls asleep. So I called back, "I can hear you just fine, go ahead and tell me." He says, "You need to go to bed, Mommy!!!!"
thanks for the support, and the quick response. We've never had any problems with milk or wheat with her and the sleeping issue is sporatic not consistant which is why it's difficult for us to figure it out. tonight went better (so far) TV was off at 8:15, filled her full of food, but didn't have room for milk. changed her up in PJ's grabbed the milk, dora and blanky, got a couple of goodnight moon books and read in the recliner. from the time we sat down (8:45) to when i thought she was completely out (9:05) was reading and pleasant cuddling. this is almost exactly what we do every other night that we are home. the only thing i did differently was that i didn't mention sleep or night night time. I slipped once and she fitted for 30 secs, enough to let me know that she didn't approve of the plan, but recovered. lights were dim in the room and no noise at all. the night waking is the toughest. Oh, and she crashed earlier than any other night this week. we use to crash around 8-8:30 but now its more like 9:15-9:30, sometimes 10. i don't like it that late, but on the other hand she's not up at 6. guess i gotta pick, huh?
She's been sleeping in her own room since she was about 6 months old. We dealt with a significant sickness with her when she was 8 months until she was just over a year old, where we couldn't really co-sleep because of tubing and such. we sleep very poorly when Sage is in our room. all three of us sleep in the same room when we stay at my parent's house. Sage is very noisy, verbally and cries out in her sleep. typically when we are at my parent's house she wakes me 4-5 times a night just by the noises in her sleep. what was really wierd about last night was that she was crying in her room but didn't get out of her bed. we took the side rail on the crib down after christmas after having a successful run at a big girl bed at my parents. Friday night she came in our room and woke me there, but last night she was crying sitting up in the crib and i had to get her.
oh, we don't usually eat as late as we did tonight, i struggled with her to eat something at 6 and gave up and gave her 1/4 of a boost that the county nurse gave us for when she went on a food jag. i don't think she liked it much tho. she refused even her favorite guilty pleasure....veggie booty. i finally got something in her at 8:15.
anyone have any words of wisdom to a 2 yr old that is having major sleeping issues? its not the same issues every night either. generally we curl up together before bed and chill with some milk, dora and a blanket but lately she is running screaming when the mere suggestion is made for bed. then if i can get her to settle with me she is poking, kicking, pinching me while she's "settling" which just irritates me. she will NOT go to bed awake. If i put her to bed groggy she pitches a huge fit and then we are stuck with having to make sure she is totally out before putting back in bed, because she will continue fitting. She does not cry out, we tried once, 2+ hrs of unconsolible child after that (that was weeks ago). last night she went to bed fine, sleeping before i put her down. at 2:45 she was up screaming and was wide awake for almost an hr. the second hr consisted of her falling into a light sleep and freaking out when put in her own bed or when i got up from it to pee. after 2.5 hrs we gave up and put her between us in bed. it still took her 15 minutes to calm down and stop kicking and pulling hair. she finally crashed but at that point it was almost 6 and i should have just gotten up. We don't do family bed often because dh is uncomfortable with it and doesn't really sleep if she's in bed with us. besides, she spends a lot of time kicking and moving around in her sleep, giving us brutal back "massages'. I went looking for calms forte today but none of our stores carry it. in the past i've had to resort to benadryl which i really don't like doing so we didn't do it last night. Friday night was bad too but i ended it with benadryl and waited it out after 1.5 hrs of fussing. I really don't know what the gig is. She doesn't get anything sugary before bed, no juice, just milk with vanilla (sugar free) added. I know that in the past we have noticed that if she doesn't have a decent dinner she will be up at 4 and will have trouble going back to sleep, even after milk. last night she had plenty to eat so i know it wasn't that and she had 8 oz of milk when she woke. She wears overnight diapers which she's been wearing for more than 6 months so i don't think its night time wetting. friday night we had strong winds so i thought that was the problem but last night was very quiet. Music doesn't work for her, nor does white noise. I am at my wits end about this. the night waking is about 2x a week and the going to bed fight is 6 out of 7 nights a week. I'm the only one home at night since dh works nights, except for weekends so he can only help 2 nights out of the week.
thanks for any suggestions. I don't post often here but i frequent the site often and have learned so much from you all.
I know it can be hard when they reach that stage of resisiting bedtime. It can be very frustrating but hopefully like all stages it will come to pass. Do you feel she is old enough to understand a reward chart. Maybe you can have her help you make one with things she likes and everynight that she goes down she gets a sticker and at the end of each week she can be rewarded with something. The rewards don't have to be big they can be ice-cream, trip to the park and so on. Remember to praise her BIG TIME when she goes down without a fight!!!!
I know the cry it out method is very difficult but it can work with consistency. I had to do that with my children and believe me it was hard for BOTH of us BUT in the end it does work, at least it did for us. It may take a week or two but once she learns that the tantrums don't work they will learn. Make sure you have a good bedtime routine
I know it can be hard when they reach that stage of resisiting bedtime. It can be very frustrating but hopefully like all stages it will come to pass. Do you feel she is old enough to understand a reward chart. Maybe you can have her help you make one with things she likes and everynight that she goes down she gets a sticker and at the end of each week she can be rewarded with something. The rewards don't have to be big they can be ice-cream, trip to the park and so on. Remember to praise her BIG TIME when she goes down without a fight!!!!
I know the cry it out method is very difficult but it can work with consistency. I had to do that with my children and believe me it was hard for BOTH of us BUT in the end it does work, at least it did for us. It may take a week or two but once she learns that the tantrums don't work they will learn. Make sure you have a good bedtime routine
Good Luck!!!
well, I suggest the book 'No Cry Sleep Solution'
CIO is not my cup of tea. Maybe walk away if you are at your wits end and need to recompose yourself..
Given she had a tough start in life, I am not surprised about the sleep issues. My little had a hard start as well...
needing to be tube fed is a big thing..and I think those things carry through.
IN any case..I know is challenging and hard. {{{HUGS}}}
__________________
"If you only believe what you see, then you are limited to what's on the surface. If you only believe what you see, then why do you pay your electric bill?" Dr. Wayne Dyer
thanks for the support. I did start the no cry sleep solution right around the same time of the original post. what i really had to do what pick one of the many issues we were having at the time. So i picked going down w/o a fight first over getting through the night. its now 3 weeks later and she goes down without a fight, sometimes she whines about it, but no more getting out of bed and returning to bed a bizillion times. the first few nights were brutal, i think i took the trip down the hall with her to return her to bed the first night about 40 times in 45 minutes before she got the point. there were lots of tears but she got it. we also bought her a star projector that shines on the ceiling, so it gives her something to look at while she's drifting. I had to gate her bdrm door, because she'd panic if i shut the door, and i would sleep so lightly thinking she was up and around in the middle of the night. I only gate it when i go to bed, so well after she is asleep. our next step was to address the wandering at night. other than the gate, she still needs someone to return her to her bed between 2 and 4 am. its better now, but still getting up. she crashes again better if she can get milk when she wakes, which she doesn't need, but it sure beats being up for 2 hrs in the wee hrs. after milk she typically can crash immediately after finishing it.
we had to also address nap issues at daycare, and since have changed daycares as of this past tues so it is yet to be seen how this is going to affect her night patterns.
oh, and the no cry sleep solution is a great guide, but definately not "no-cry" in our house
Oh and i did subscribe to the EFT info, just haven't had time to read and learn yet.
I think it's partly that your expectations for her are too high. It's just not realistic to expect a 2yo to put themselves to sleep alone and stay there.
well, now we are 2 weeks later, and she goes down for naps and bed without any hesitation at all. she's also just started saying good night, which was a foul phrase, certain to send her into tantrums if said a month ago. She is doing great, and i don't think the expectation was too high. she does wonderful now, no whining or anything and doesn't cry when she gets up in the wee hrs, just calls for me with a quiet "mama".
it's worked for us. co-sleeping doesn't. i've found her at the bottom of our bed, head hanging off, completely backwards from us. She sleeps a ton better in her own space.
Location: In Crochet Therapy... I can charge insurance for yarn, right?!
Posts: 3,484
SO glad to hear you're having success! My DS is doing so much better as well. That last extended round of sleeplessness had to do with a bad pattern created by an intermittant cold, and the bad pattern FINALLY wore off!
We also started a new system with him - I tied a mesh bag onto the side of his bed and each night put 5 blocks in it. I told him that everytime he called us in there, we would take a block. And after all the blocks were gone we wouldn't come in his room any more that night. The plan was to reduce the number of blocks over time, but he started to understand it pretty quickly and there hasn't been a need.
We also experimented with giving him no nap some days (GASP!) Wow oh wow am I not ready to give up his naps! But - it helps tremendously if he skips his nap at least every third day.
So now? I'm getting at least 6 hours of sleep straight almost every night. Quite wonderful indeed!
We also experimented with giving him no nap some days (GASP!) Wow oh wow am I not ready to give up his naps! But - it helps tremendously if he skips his nap at least every third day.
So now? I'm getting at least 6 hours of sleep straight almost every night. Quite wonderful indeed!
That is such a great idea. I just started doing the same thing with my 3 yr old boy. I don't do it everyday because I need nap time worse than he does I think!! But he does go to sleep a lot faster and stays in bed almost all night on napless days. What age are you supposed to stop naps at anyway?
__________________ Amber-
mother of two {boys} lover of one {wes}
Me & My Sweet Boys
The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man. ~Author Unknown
Location: In Crochet Therapy... I can charge insurance for yarn, right?!
Posts: 3,484
I've heard that kids grow out of napping at some point after they turn 3. A few earlier, some much later. I started experimenting with the no nap b/c DS is close to 3, and he would take an hour to go to sleep for his nap, and the random days when he happened to skip one for whatever reason, he seemed to do ok.
We have learned that he cannot go without a nap more than every-other day. And so the days that he's happy to nap, I've been waking him up after an hour - that seems to help, too.
These days when he takes a full nap, he's getting later and later with when he'll fall asleep at night... even up to 11:00! I've seriously got to get to sleep before 11!
- because I'm also out of ideas. Those were some great ideas that sillymommy shared! I think the storytime and sleep like a cloud coming to you is just beautiful!
Amber-
Linear Mode
