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MamaJosie · 10-16-2005, 07:27 PM

Did you ask her why she doesnt like poop? Does it hurt her to go or does she think it is gross or does it scare her in some way? How did you handle toilet training initially?

I know you probably know the basics of Freudian psychology so I wont bore you with all that and I dont really subscribe to Freud as I think there is way more to the human experience than what he suggests. But I do feel many of his ideas about attachment in infancy and focus on the importance of early experiences is right on.

In particular he talk about toileting being that time at which the child first has to conform to adult societal standards. It is kind of a push-pull between our ID (basic drives to get what we want) and the SUPEREGO (the internalized rules of family/society), and the EGO is the mediator, so to speak, of these two forces.

The EGO is kind of who we are or who we present to the world and many modern ego psycologists talk about increasing EGO functioning and giving the person more power to control their life as the goal of therapy.

At any rate, an imbalance between the ID, SUPEREGO and EGO can cause anxiety and lead to problems. Although these are of course abstract constructs of how a person's psychological process unfolds, I do agree with him that toileting is a pretty pivitol time in a child's life. But I don't think that means we should not intervene when things arent going well. I think we have as parents, in recent years, been so warned against interfering too much or being too controlling for fear of scarring our kids' psyches for life, that maybe we have erred too far on the side of letting the child be in total control.

My last two kids were 3 and 3.5 when they potty trained. Emma just didnt want to let go of those diapers because she was a middle child and her special needs baby brother got all the attention and she thought being a baby was where it was at. I was DESPERATE to get her out of dipes, so I bribed her with a doll she had been wanting. I bought it, put it up and said if you go on the toilet for a WEEK with no accidents you can have it.

She did it (truly not one accident in bed or otherwise) except she wouldnt poop on the toilet. She got one dipe I think during that week and sat on it to poop, then cleaned herself up and held it the rest of the time. After the week was up, I said you did great but you still have to poop at least once on the potty. I could not coach her through it. She was terrified of that sensation of letting her bowels relax over the potty. I think she felt like her guts would come out or something. Finally, dh went in there and coached her through it somehow (without shame or anger, just coaching her through). And after that we never had anymore problems.

You may have tried all this type of thing but I just thought I would suggest that maybe you should try a daily potty time (maybe combined with the mineral oil shake idea) where she needs to stay there for 10 minutes and have special books or toys she can look at/play with while sitting there, like a really cool sticker book or something. Or stay with her and talk her through it. (Although I realize this could be seen as controlling).

Maybe try explaining how it is not good for her body to only go once a week or whatever it is and that she really needs to let it out at least every other day or it is not good for her body. Have a reward chart for every poop and do some really fun activities when she makes a certain goal.

Maybe get the book EVERYONE POOPS and read it to her often. Take her to the zoo and let her see all the animals pooping. We went today and while we were in the petting zoo area, my ds was laughing at the little goat turds flying out of their butts like a machine gun.

So how often does she poop? Do you have a hospital clean home or talk about things being gross or disgusting often? I am not trying to suggest you do but just trying to dig deep and figure out anything that could be influencing her aversion.

The not wanting to eat thing is really troubling mama, and I agree I would ask around and find a good therapist quickly. However, I also feel her bodily function is as important as the mental side and if you have to get a little more forceful with saying I am the parent and your body needs to do this so we will sit on the pot for as long as it takes for a few mornings to break through this problem, then I would consider that as well. If she is grasping for attention or control in life, then give her lots in other areas. ust my .02 and hope I didnt offend. I am concerned for your dd is all.

10-16-2005, 07:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
MamaJosie Registered User iTrader: 2 / 100% Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,296	Wow mama, that sounds really tough Did you ask her why she doesnt like poop? Does it hurt her to go or does she think it is gross or does it scare her in some way? How did you handle toilet training initially? I know you probably know the basics of Freudian psychology so I wont bore you with all that and I dont really subscribe to Freud as I think there is way more to the human experience than what he suggests. But I do feel many of his ideas about attachment in infancy and focus on the importance of early experiences is right on. In particular he talk about toileting being that time at which the child first has to conform to adult societal standards. It is kind of a push-pull between our ID (basic drives to get what we want) and the SUPEREGO (the internalized rules of family/society), and the EGO is the mediator, so to speak, of these two forces. The EGO is kind of who we are or who we present to the world and many modern ego psycologists talk about increasing EGO functioning and giving the person more power to control their life as the goal of therapy. At any rate, an imbalance between the ID, SUPEREGO and EGO can cause anxiety and lead to problems. Although these are of course abstract constructs of how a person's psychological process unfolds, I do agree with him that toileting is a pretty pivitol time in a child's life. But I don't think that means we should not intervene when things arent going well. I think we have as parents, in recent years, been so warned against interfering too much or being too controlling for fear of scarring our kids' psyches for life, that maybe we have erred too far on the side of letting the child be in total control. My last two kids were 3 and 3.5 when they potty trained. Emma just didnt want to let go of those diapers because she was a middle child and her special needs baby brother got all the attention and she thought being a baby was where it was at. I was DESPERATE to get her out of dipes, so I bribed her with a doll she had been wanting. I bought it, put it up and said if you go on the toilet for a WEEK with no accidents you can have it. She did it (truly not one accident in bed or otherwise) except she wouldnt poop on the toilet. She got one dipe I think during that week and sat on it to poop, then cleaned herself up and held it the rest of the time. After the week was up, I said you did great but you still have to poop at least once on the potty. I could not coach her through it. She was terrified of that sensation of letting her bowels relax over the potty. I think she felt like her guts would come out or something. Finally, dh went in there and coached her through it somehow (without shame or anger, just coaching her through). And after that we never had anymore problems. You may have tried all this type of thing but I just thought I would suggest that maybe you should try a daily potty time (maybe combined with the mineral oil shake idea) where she needs to stay there for 10 minutes and have special books or toys she can look at/play with while sitting there, like a really cool sticker book or something. Or stay with her and talk her through it. (Although I realize this could be seen as controlling). Maybe try explaining how it is not good for her body to only go once a week or whatever it is and that she really needs to let it out at least every other day or it is not good for her body. Have a reward chart for every poop and do some really fun activities when she makes a certain goal. Maybe get the book EVERYONE POOPS and read it to her often. Take her to the zoo and let her see all the animals pooping. We went today and while we were in the petting zoo area, my ds was laughing at the little goat turds flying out of their butts like a machine gun. So how often does she poop? Do you have a hospital clean home or talk about things being gross or disgusting often? I am not trying to suggest you do but just trying to dig deep and figure out anything that could be influencing her aversion. The not wanting to eat thing is really troubling mama, and I agree I would ask around and find a good therapist quickly. However, I also feel her bodily function is as important as the mental side and if you have to get a little more forceful with saying I am the parent and your body needs to do this so we will sit on the pot for as long as it takes for a few mornings to break through this problem, then I would consider that as well. If she is grasping for attention or control in life, then give her lots in other areas. ust my .02 and hope I didnt offend. I am concerned for your dd is all.