To be a "Christian" do you have to believe what Jesus taught?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Discussions' started by mamajandtheboys, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. DixieChick

    DixieChick One Hot Mama!

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    ESV is good. Several folks in our congregation use it. I have my trusty NASB, that I have used and loved for a while now though, so I stick with it!
  2. annsni

    annsni Amity's Focus Member

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    NASB is my second Bible. Between the two, I think I'm well set. :)
  3. twiceblessed

    twiceblessed Active Member

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    Isaiah 9:6 says Jesus is God, he is the Father, and he is also the Son. The name of the Father is Jesus, the name of the Son is Jesus, the name of the Holy Ghost is Jesus...Matthew 28:18-19. :)
  4. twiceblessed

    twiceblessed Active Member

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    So there is no hell in your opinion? (yes I realize I am coming into this reeeeeeally late)
  5. tikva18

    tikva18 busy building blocks

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    Naturally, I disagree :) Here is a link: Who is the child in Isaiah 9:5-6
  6. twiceblessed

    twiceblessed Active Member

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    Same here...but the opposite belief. I'm Oneness Pentecostal. We don't believe in the trinity because we believe there is no division whatsoever.
  7. twiceblessed

    twiceblessed Active Member

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    Thanks for posting that. I've always wondered what the Jewish perspective was on that. :)
  8. Maura

    Maura Gene Genie

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    Ah- I had a discussion about this with a pastor at a church I attended in 2002-2005. I asked how people who have no access to a Bible or missionaries, etc.., would be able to enter Heaven. I was told that they would not. So, God has decided to keep some people in the dark and exclude them by placing them in environments where they will never be able to be "saved". I find that unimaginable. What I felt like I was being told was, "Tough luck for those unfortunate people."
  9. Claire Berry

    Claire Berry New Member

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    I love this. Dealing with this in philosophy courses was a cornerstone in setting my foundation of faith.

    This website has some good info on the root words and what not. ANd I think that's what this is all about. With all the different translations, both language and personal inferences, there are so many ways to look at it. A grave. A grave is a grave. Well, people have risen from graves. It is the exception. How can you argue. People find an answer that works for them and try to make it the final word for someone else so they can preach from their soapbox or website. lol.

    I personally don't care how you interepret this. I mean, I do, that's why I am intruigued in this thread, but ywim... if we love Jesus, and I think the most important thing is KNOWING Jesus ... if we do then who cares if we don't agree? I dont' think Jesus would judge harshly against us, even if we were wrong in wanting to believe that somehow, someway God is powerful enough to make it all right again.

    I know how Jesus works in my heart and I believe that there is nothing too dirty or too broken to be fixed, not if God has a say.

    Seems kinda trivial. When you think about it.

    I think He would just laugh.
  10. Maura

    Maura Gene Genie

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    I think some people really do feel like they should "convert" or "evangelize" (I'm tired, cut me some slack on the vocabulary.) because it is their duty to save as many as they can. And I believe this group truly worries about the salvation of others. I really do believe there are good intentions. However, there tends to be a lot of judgment about people who do not follow the prescribed beliefs. I have heard a lot of negative comments about non-Christians within the Christian churches I have attended.(Catholic, Protestant, Baptist...) Enough to know it is not uncommon. It's unfortunate because it just divides everyone. And I don't believe Jesus was about division. I'm not implying that only Christians do this; I am speaking from my own experience. I think I have lost my point along the way.:lol:
  11. Claire Berry

    Claire Berry New Member

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    A few more words...

    love your enemy. would a God who taught this really turn his back on his last lost sheep?

    and also

    I do want to add that I think they key is in the realization that whatever our personal inferences, opinions, translations are - they are human and incomplete and of course it doens't matter if we disagree with God, He is going to be right. I know a lot of people see it like that. That others are just wrong and they can't let people be wrong or they won't get saved. But that is not the deciding factor in salvation. I know people think that if people think this way they are just manipulating what they are reading for the benefit their own opinions and beliefs. ANd I agree that people should not do that.

    BUT when you are dealing with beliefs you then have to take a look at your definition of sin.

    Some different desrcriptions I thought were interesting:

    any willful disregard for the norms revealed by God
    The word is from the old English synn, presumed to be from Germanic *sun(d)jō (literally "it is true").
    Through sin, guilt is incurred; and according to guilt, punishment is deserved

    And I thoughtwhat this site says is relevant:

    'The truth is that sin, as defined in the original translations of the Bible, means "to miss the mark." The mark, in this case, is the standard of perfection established by God and evidenced by Jesus. Viewed in that light, it is clear that we are all sinners.'

    So stealing is wrong. Most people know that. Say little girl has been taught by grandpa her whole life that corporations are bad and wrong and she honestly believes that its okay to take a candy bar from Walmart if she's hungry. Is she going to hell for it. Probably not, that's not really the criteria for salvation, is it? But is it a sin? What if she never realizes she's wrong before she dies and so therefor doesn't repent? Is she unrepentant or is it not even a sin.

    And who knows for sure?

    And Who decides? Does it really matter if we all know the answer to that?

    I personally think it takes a lot of faith to say I have no idea what the answer is. I'm only human and whatever inference I make from Scripture could be wrong and just to let it be one of those things that you can't let yourself worry about.

    We are merely dust and our "information" is worthless so why use our petty philosophies to debate our opinions when what we should be doing is realizing we should be bowing down due to the fact that what God does is ao magnificent and perfect that our little brains can't even begin to understand. I like to stay humble and its refreshing sometimes to take a step back and say, "we aren't meant to know."

    Otherwise the Bible would be a lot more clear. lol. IMO
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  12. HuncaMunca

    HuncaMunca Active Member

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    I don't know the answer to your question, but Psalm 19 talks about how God is revealed through all he has created.

    The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
    Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they display knowledge.

    There is no speech or language
    where their voice is not heard.
    Their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.




    Also, Romans 1:20 says that everyone knows there is a God because of the amazingness of creation:

    For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
  13. annsni

    annsni Amity's Focus Member

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    How does that reconcile with Jesus' baptism?
  14. annsni

    annsni Amity's Focus Member

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    It's actually not our duty to save anyone. We can't save anyone - only Jesus can. However in the Great Commission we are told to preach the Gospel to all nations so that's what we do. C.H. Spurgeon said it best when he said "“If sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies. And if they will perish, let them perish with our arms around their knees, imploring them to stay. If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go there unwarned and unprayed for.”
  15. Robin

    Robin Jesus Follower

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    There is actually a very good missiology book written about this called "Eternity in their Hearts".
  16. Maura

    Maura Gene Genie

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    Yeah, it was late and I was tired. I meant evangelize, I guess. So, what is The Great Commission? I know I have heard of it, just not sure what it is.
  17. twiceblessed

    twiceblessed Active Member

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    Leading by example. God robed Himself in flesh to experience everything we experience. Part of that is baptism. Also, that flesh He came in was still fully human...hence the "this is my beloved Son" thing. I think it would be difficult to reconcile a belief that Jesus was NOT fully God when you consider Isaiah 9:6. Additionally, only God can take our sin upon Himself (the cross). Not one third of God, not a part of God, not one person in a trinity. Just God. :)
  18. Robin

    Robin Jesus Follower

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    "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:19-20
  19. annsni

    annsni Amity's Focus Member

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    What I meant was the three distinct persons at Christ's baptism. How does that work out?
  20. twiceblessed

    twiceblessed Active Member

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    Obviously we don't see "three distinct persons" there. I'm really not going to get into a debate about it though. :)

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