Spare the rod and spoil the child

Discussion in 'Spiritual Discussions' started by amyorama, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. amyorama

    amyorama Amity's Focus Member

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    Are there any Biblical references that go against this? Someone in our HS group uses a belt on their kids for discipline. :wah: I am not going to approach them about it, but I am praying that the subject comes up so I can say something yet not appear confrontational. Any input, especailly scripture, would be so appreciated!!!
  2. JeniLyn

    JeniLyn Guest

    I believe that the more traditional interpretation (rod= spanking) is wrong. John Rosemond has a great essay on his website about this. I am not a huge fan of Rosemond, but I have gained respect for him, reading some of his essays (as opposed to the short answers in his newspaper column). I'm assuming your friend is religious and perhaps his devout christianity will carry some weight with her?

    Here is the link:

    Proverbs 13:24

    and, for the record, Rosemond does not advocate spanking at all, but doesn't agree with the idea that it is completely wrong, when not used stupidly (and believes most people spank "stupidly"). Here is that essay:

    Position Statement on Spanking

    Again, not a huge Rosemond fan, but I've found my pro-spanking friends take him more seriously than me! :)

    Jeni
  3. JeniLyn

    JeniLyn Guest

    Wanted to add: I printed out that first essay and read it with a friend. Her kids are teenagers, so it was not confrontational, I just wanted her to understand why I choose not to spank, and this was an easy way to approach it--and she likes Rosemond. And for full disclosure, I *have* spanked, and wish I had never done it.

    Jeni
  4. amyorama

    amyorama Amity's Focus Member

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    Me too. I did it out of anger.:eyes:

    The parents talk to the child before hitting them with a belt. They tell them why they are getting hit with a belt and tell them that they love them afterwards. I believe James Dobson advocates this kind of discipline.

    Thank you so much for the links!!!!
  5. JeniLyn

    JeniLyn Guest

    Yes, Dobson teaches that for spanking, you should use another object, other than your had, so that kids don't associate pain (or whatever) with you, but the object. (!!!) I think I have that correct. I stopped listening to Dobson when I was in college. :)

    Jeni
  6. Natalia

    Natalia New Member

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    The shepard uses the rod to guide His sheep and gently prod them in the right direction. Not to beat the sheep.
  7. amyorama

    amyorama Amity's Focus Member

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    Well said!
  8. annb

    annb It's like herding cats.

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    Dr. Sears also has an article. brb
  9. annb

    annb It's like herding cats.

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  10. branwyn

    branwyn fasting and cleansing

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    email me if you want to stay in touch - madhousema
  11. Bluemoonjo

    Bluemoonjo Mama Jo

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    As Christians we are supposed to follow Jesus examples

    Jesus always spoke highly of the children.

    "It were better for him if a millstone were hanged around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should offend one of these little ones." Luke 17:2

    Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Luke 17:2

    And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3

    Ect, ect

    Jesus showed love, and forgiveness ... he didn't take people and beat them, even if he may have wanted to :lol:


    But he brought his people out like a flock; he led them like sheep through the desert. He guided them safely, so they were unafraid; but the sea engulfed their enemies. Psalm 78:52-53
    ..... the shepherd didn't beat them, he guided them, if he beat them they would have ran away.

    Most of the beating your kids stuff comes out of Proverbs .... Solomon's son didn't turn out to be a very nice person. LOL

    LOL I don't have esword downloaded on this computer (gonna go do that now :) ) So thats the best I can say without my word definations and other cheat sheets. :D
  12. georgiadoula

    georgiadoula New Member

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    shepherds used the rod to guide and the hook to retrieve the sheep who had wandered away- never did a shepherd beat his sheep with the rod- he loved them and they grew to love him. only one place is the word beat used in the OT about beating a child and he will not die- i have no words to even explain that one- but i will say there are tons of scriptures about do unto others- gentleness- grace- training a child gently, etc.
  13. heythereheather

    heythereheather A reading family

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    When someone asks me about it (and it does come up pretty frequently), I ask them if they know what a rod looks like. It's a REALLY big, thick stick. I ask them if that's what they are using. Of course it's not. So then I challenge them--they are willing to accept that they must make some kind of compromises (not take it completely literally). They aren't really using a "rod". So, I say, neither do I. But I also don't spare the rod, as I do discipline my children.

    It's also important to note that the verse comes from Proverbs, along with most of the other verses used to promote spanking. While Proverbs is a great book of the Bible, it's most definitely not to be taken completely literally. Read through a few chapters, and make some notes on other verses that are clearly not literal in nature.

    Anyway, that's how I convinced one of my friends. I made it clear that I *do* think that discipline of children is important. Many who spank think that if you don't spank, your kids will just run wild. The only reason that I even speak at all about not spanking is because I want others to know that you can discipline your kids without spanking. I very much believe it's important to train my children in the way I want them to go. I choose to use very very different methods, though, than spanking.

    I think that the way they spank could also be influenced by "Shepherding a Child's Heart." which, outside of the spanking, is a really good book. I think that's the point of my discipline, too--not just to get them to do what I want, but to change their heart.
  14. Natalia

    Natalia New Member

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    Heather.

    Can you talk more about this? In the 20 seconds since I've read this, I've thought: Yes! ... Train? ... no?

    I love the definition of discipline of "to teach by example." Not sure where I read that or if it is even accuate.

    I vacillate on the "train" idea. I do want to teach them to be kind to themselves and other people and animals and the world. Ultimately, I just want them to be kind. From inner motivation. Just because that is who they are.

    I also see the practical side of this. When dd is angry and wants to hit her brother, I must teach her (train her?) that this is not an appropriate response. Her inner motivation is to vent her anger.

    I hope I am making sense here.

    In any case, I hope that you can share your thoughts on this -- and any reading material. I will check for Sheparding a Child's Heart.
  15. heythereheather

    heythereheather A reading family

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    Oh, I know "train" is a controversial word in the AP world. I don't mean it as "make my child do what I want", because I think that's silly. I mean it more as the "teach, guide, direct" kind of way. And really--it's not just the way *I* want them to go, it's really more the way God wants them to go. Sometimes that looks totally different than what I would choose for myself.

    And it's about so much more than just behavior. OK, I have to go now, to guide and direct my children who are fighting as they play together. :lol: I'll try to remember to come back to this.
  16. brayg

    brayg Evil Genius

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    I've always chosen to read it like this:

    Spare the rod.

    Spoil the child.

    But I really like Natalia's initial post on it as well. :)
  17. Natalia

    Natalia New Member

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    And I knew that's what you meant by train. I've read your posts in the past. :)

    So how do you determine the way God wants them to go?
  18. ElDucko

    ElDucko Amity's Focus Member

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    I know this is old but I read something about this just the other day and have to post about it.

    The entire phrase is, btw, since I had to look it up myself ;)
    "He who spares the rod hates his son,
    but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (NIV)

    King James says it's this "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

    and the one my grandma gave me (The Everyday Bible) "If a person does not punish his children, he does not love them. But the person who lives his children is careful to correct them."

    which the author said meant that you should guide your children. The rod was meant as a symbol of a shepherd, leading his flock. You love your kids, so sheperd them, lead them with your rod, to good grass and clean water. And discipline them. Since discipline is related to desciple, to teach, it means the second sentance is agreeing with the first, lead your kids to good grass and clean water and teach them well to show your love. If you don't lead them, you don't love them.

    I thought it was beautiful and just had to share. I wish I remembered it better, it was put much more elequently.
  19. PinkLotusMama

    PinkLotusMama New Member

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    I am late getting ready for work, but thought I could at least post a couple links. I hope its ok to post a link to another forum, its just the article I am pointing you to, not the forum itself.

    The Rod or the Sherbet
    Spare The Rod
  20. annsni

    annsni Amity's Focus Member

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    Just a bit on the word "train"....There are those teachers and leaders who would make it a term that is like training a dog. The Pearls are famous for this - comparing children to horses and how the Amish train their horses. However, he is completely wrong and if I trained my 17.1 hand, 1500 lb. horse the way he says to "train" our children, I'd have a death machine on my hands.

    The word "train" from Proverbs 22:6 means "to train, dedicate, inaugurate". It is used 5 times in the original language and is translated only this one time as "train". The other 4 times it's translated as "dedicate":

    Deuteronomy 20:5 "And the officers shall speak unto the people, saying, What man [is there] that hath built a new house, and hath not dedicated it? let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man dedicate it."

    I Kings 8:63 "And Solomon offered a sacrifice of peace offerings, which he offered unto the LORD, two and twenty thousand oxen, and an hundred and twenty thousand sheep. So the king and all the children of Israel dedicated the house of the LORD."

    2 Chronicles 7:5 "And king Solomon offered a sacrifice of twenty and two thousand oxen, and an hundred and twenty thousand sheep: so the king and all the people dedicated the house of God."

    So we can see a bit more the meaning of "train" in "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it."

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